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Hi i live in Flatbush and I’m looking for a new school and I’m not sure Wich one will be best for me…I am going into 12th grade and need a yeshiva that is chilled,not boring,and learns a decent amount.. I have a smartphone (tagged of course) and I need a place that will be open minded but is strong in they’re learning…Any ideas?
Ner Yisroel fits with what you have said.
Are you open to going out of Brooklyn?
It would help if you explained what you call “chilled”, what you consider a “decent amount”, and certainly what you consider “open minded”.
I’m from way over the pond in Britain, so I don’t consider myself an expert on American Yeshivos, but there is a place called Eddisons which you might like. They are a mainstream Yeshiva, high learning standard (bochurim come from there to Brisk), but they have a gym downstairs, and from what I understand, they are quite “chilled”.
Hatzlacha Rabba in finding the place that you can integrate into with ease, and only have aliyah in your learning and yiras shamayim!
Reb Shidduch – I may be wrong, but my impression of Ner Yisroel is probably more “chilled” than what he has in mind (judging from the smartphone which is “tagged of course” – in Ner Yisroel I don’t know if it would be tagged, and it certainly wouldn’t be “of course”).
Gr8Bochur – When you say “open minded”, do you have anything against “yeshivish”, or do you just mean you want a more relaxed warm environment that the standard yeshivas?
Ner Yisroel permits high school bochorim to come with smartphones?
Seems like Joseph and I have a different perception of Ner Yisroel. Joseph thinks they wouldn’t be allowed with smartphones, and I was of the understanding that filtering wouldn’t be expected of them.
I reiterate that my advice should be taken with triple the usual CR Salt; my understanding comes from the feeling I pick up from the few friends I have who have learnt in the above Yeshivas.
I wouldn’t want to say Joseph is right but your perception is indeed incorrect. If they have smartphones, which I think they are not supposed to, they would need to be ‘tagged’. Maybe you confused “…that filtering wouldn’t be expected of them” with “…that filtering wouldn’t be requested of them…because they wouldn’t think to do otherwise”
I do know my son’s friend who is there was not allowed a smart phone and only this year was allowed a kosher phone.I am mildly uncomfortable with your willingness to speak this way about any group that you know you may be wrong about. Not quite like you…..
MOD-29 – You are right. Like I said, my statements were based on observational evidence of friends who was there, who I know had smartphones while they were in Yeshiva, but I had no right to assume that the Yeshiva sanction such activity, nor to generalize that the entire Yeshiva is like that.
I hereby retract any comment I previously made about Ner Yisroel Baltimore.
M29, why are you uncertain or reluctant to say I’m right? Is your impression that my above understanding is too far?
YWMOD, I think that is only the high school. My brother went there. So from my understanding only the high school boys cannot have smartphones maybe?
Gr8bochur, that is ner that you are referring to. Many boys who go there are very smart and have a college education and definitely not a learning disability or challenged. They go out to restaurants, movies and anything they want. It depends on the boys level of yidishkeit also what they do.
yekke2, there are plenty of nice good frum boys who go to ner. They are amazing boys. They are not “modern”. They may go to college but they are not “modern”. They learn part time and work part time. There is nothing wrong with that. Some of the boys that go there end up learning in kollel. That is not “modern”.
yekke2, especially since they are very good boys bh.
gr8bochur: Yam Hatorah is a good yeshiva but very small. It has warm rabbeim (most from the sevivah of Yeshivas Chofetz Chayim). The menahel Rabbi Pollack is a son-in-law of Rabbi Shaya Cohen who is the driving force behind the yeshiva. They do take the boys on trips. However, I am not sure of the “cell phone” policy.
#1244315: They go out to restaurants, movies and anything they want. It depends on the boys level of yidishkeit also what they do.
#1244312: They are amazing boys. They are not “modern”.
??
Why do you think the Yeshivos you named will be interested in you?
Surely there is a reason(s) you are looking to switch out of your high school after 11th grade (as you wrote I am going into 12th grade). Perhaps if we understood the reason for switching high schools for the 12th grade, it would help advise where to go.
Have you spoken to any Rabbeim at your current high school? Have they suggested anything?
Gr8bochur, why wont ner work? I happen to be very pro ner. So that is why I am asking.
yekke2, do you consider boys who go to movies modern?
Rebshidduch – if you don’t consider going to movies to be modern, what do you consider modern?
Lilmod, then even the guys who I consider to be more religious not yesivish but in between you consider modern because they watch movies. Then according to you I definitely want a modern guy no matter what. I consider a guy who only keeps shabbos and kosher and nothing else to be modern. In between is someone who watches movies, does not talk to girls, listens to not Jewish music and learns at least part time to be in between and yeshivish someone who learns in kollel.
My dear Gr8Bochur,
I’ve been following this thread with interest and I see that basically you’ve gotten nowhere. Before I answer, I would like to disclaim; I don’t know you or your personal situation. I’m going to answer based on the scant information that you have provided, as well as my experience as a South African bred (so I understand the wider world), Gateshead and Mir educated (so I understand the yeshivishe velt), 40-something (so I have life experience) male adult. I would hate to see someone who wants to shteig just fall by the wayside.
It’s clear that you want to continue learning. You said in your opening paragraph that you want to go to a place strong in their learning. However, clearly you don’t want to give up the comforts of life that you are now used to, e.g. the smartphone, and the chilling that a young bochur can do.
I’m assuming that you want to learn, and as such you will HAVE to give up something. To be successful in Yeshiva and later in Kollel (and in fact in anything in life), you have to be willing to leave your comfort zone. Life is starting for real now and to be really successful you can’t remain a young boy. Wouldn’t it be amazing to challenge yourself, to try aim high and reach for the sky? There is no better feeling than getting home at the end of a zman, with a mesechte in your pocket, with a full notebook of your Rosh yeshiva’s shiurim and having conquered a bad midda with powerful mussar.
You have a chance now to grab the bull by the horns, leave the phone and the chilling for when zman is over, and dive straight in to the Yam haTalmud.
Flatbush is not a midbar, and I’m sure there are wonderful Rabonim and morei derech there. It’s difficult to tell from here in the UK, but I have heard shiurim from Rabbi Lieff of the Agudah Bais Binyomin, he sounds like someone I would be able to talk to. Decide that you want to reach for the stars, and take advice from a Rav, or your present Rosh Yeshiva/Principal or a respected Yungerman who knows you or your personal circumstances. Us YW CR people are nice, but we’re anonymous and we’re not going to push you, or be there in Bain Hazmanim to say “Sholom Aleichem Tzadik’l, vos hot men gelernt dem zman?” (OK some of us do.)
Remember, only you can decide to be the best you can be, and you only get one chance to do it. Hatzlocho gedola!
With love from Geordie613,
Manchester, Englandyekke2, do you consider boys who go to movies modern?
If the answer has to be as straight as that, definitely yes.
I consider a guy who only keeps shabbos and kosher and nothing else to be modern.
Is “Modern” synonymous with “not observant”? I thought we were talking about Frum people (definition: People who keep all 613 commandments), and were discussing Yeshivish/Modern in terms of ideology. We are going to have to change language if people who aren’t Frum are entering the equation.
In between is someone who watches movies, does not talk to girls, listens to not Jewish music and learns at least part time to be in between
But you want someone who does talk to girls, wasn’t that already established in other threads? I’m almost sure you said your dating a boy you give lifts to and is a friend and shows you tattoos?
and yeshivish someone who learns in kollel.
Yeshivish is not defined by the amount of hours a person learns. There are many people “in learning” but not Yeshivish, and many more people who are not in Kollel but are Yeshivish. It refers to the mindset of a Ben Torah. There are, unfortunately, too many Bnei Torah who for reasons of Parnassah are not in Kollel. Yeshivish would probably be better defined by how many hours a man wants to learn rather than how many hours he actually does.
I am looking for a Yeshiva for my son in Israel (post high school). My son also wants a place where he can keep his Smartphone, and where they can go out to restaurants in the evening. He is not so interested in learning (yet), so I need a place that will motivate him, rather than criticize him. Has anyone heard of Yeshivas Ziv HaTorah with Rav Shmuel Brazil?
yekke2, then too many other guys would be considered yeshivish even the ones going out to movies but still want to spend more time learning. Also, I did not say that I want someone who hangs out with girls I would never say that. In fact I probably will marry someone in between like the definition I said.
Please, stop putting people in boxes.
Thank you
Yekke – +1, especially for your second and fourth points. I was going to respond (similarly) but wasn’t in the mood so I’m glad you did. You probably did a better job than I would have.
I definitely agree that “Yeshivish” can not be defined as being in Kollel. While there are several possible definitions (it can either refer to sociology, hashkafa or religious level), it is inaccurate and unfair to define it based on whether or not someone is in Kollel, imho.
Rif – I know someone who teaches there. Tell me what you want to know, and I’ll try to find out for you.
Geordie – +100! Nice!
Rebshidduch:
1. I don’t think he meant that the only definition of someone “yeshivish” is that he wants to spend a certain amount of time learning. I think he meant that is part of the definition. For example, if someone does not keep Shabbos but is or wants to be learning full-time, he obviously could not be considered Yeshivish.
2. When he wrote that it has to do with how much time the person WANTS to be learning, I don’t think he meant someone who theoretically wants to be learning but meanwhile is not motivated and is going to movies instead. I think he meant someone who wants to learn but either needs a parnassah or else knows that he will be more productive if he works 4 (or 6 or 8 or whatever) hours a day and learns for 2 (or 4 or 6 or whatever) hours a day.
But I think we are talking about someone who does not waste time and is focused on his Avodas Hashem the entire day – he just may feel that his Avodas Hashem right now does not entail learning 24/7.
Yekke – feel free to correct me if that’s not what you meant. Thanks!
ps: moderators: hope I got the italics thing right this time. Feel free to “fix” if not. Thanks!
Gr8bachur. Stay in Flatbush and go to Birchas Shmuel (Rabbi Wallerstein).
“He is not so interested in learning (yet),”
Then why send him to E’Y? Why do you think he will suddenly be interested once he gets there, especially if he has all the distractions of home? what you should really be asking (IF interest in learning is the goal), what Yeshiva, wherever it may be, can help develop that interest.
Lilmod, how would you describe a girl like this? Someone who learns and always does chesed and keeps tznius very well and does not hang out with guys. Are they considered yeshivish?
how would you describe a girl like this? Someone who learns and always does chesed and keeps tznius very well and does not hang out with guys. Are they considered yeshivish?
I would categorize that person as someone who learns and always does chesed and keeps tznius very well and does not hang out with guys.
Again, please stop putting people in boxes
Again, please stop putting people in boxes
Maybe her name is Dina.
I wonder – was Dina considered yeshivish?
G..613: I agree with a number of things you wrote. However, the advice you gave is not what the bachur has asked for (even though I agree with your POV). It is one of the reasons why, in your own words, “I see that basically you’ve gotten nowhere.”.
Having a son who deals with bochurim similar to the OP (and I would say on a lower level of ruchniyos than the OP), his approach and advice is different than yours, probably because he understands the “Flatbush” mentality of the bochurim and their parents. Telling the bochur “you have to be willing to leave your comfort zone” does not generally work in these situations. Sometimes we have to adapt to where they are now. bring them up a notch and then do as you suggest.
How about Mesivta Atreres Shmuel of Durham, Connecticut, otherwise known as Waterbury.The Rebbeim there are by far the most caring and understanding Rebbeim that I have ever met. They respect each bochur for who he really is and in no way do they try to get you to fit into their mold, like some other Yeshivos do. They cater to every boy individually helping him access his unique talents to become a true eved Hashem.
Regarding learning, many of the boys are very serious in learning. They learn yoimam valaylah. Personally, the shtarkest guys i know are all from there.
And from a chilled perspective the guys are maaaad chilled. They go out to eat, they make kumzitzes they make fantastic crazy siyumin and concerts. They bowl they play basketball football etc. I think its a fantastic place.Lilmod Ulelamaid – thanks for your response
I would like to know if they permit Smartphones, and if there’s a curfew, and basically for what type of boys they cater. As I wrote earlier, my son needs to be motivated to learn, he would rather have fun.
Apushatayid – I will rephrase my question as you so nicely suggested. What Yeshiva, can help develop his interest in learning? I won’t say wherever it may be because he’s not going to US, he would have stayed in Europe but there’s no suitable yeshiva for him out there, so the only option is Israel.
Geordie613 – maybe you can help me like you helped your dear Gr8bochur.
Meno, okay fine. So why were you guys asking me what my definition of modern is?
Rebshidduch,
Who’s “you guys”?
Whoever it is, I’m talking to them too.
Meno, whoever asked me in specific I forgot who. Look above to find the person.
Rif: I do not have personal experience (meaning my own children) but I have seen bochurim from my neighborhood (who I would say were in the same category as you describe your son) who blossomed in (alphabetic order):
Yeshiva Adereth Hatorah (Rabbi Senter)
Yeshiva Ateres Yerushalayim (AKA “AJ” )
Yeshiva Mercaz Hatorah
Yeshiva Toras ChaimHatzlacha!
Thanks iacisrmma, I have heard about the first 3 Yeshivos you mentioned.
How about Yeshivas Zeev HaTorah where Rabbi Shmuel Brazil is the Rosh Yeshiva?
Rabbi Kreisworth split from Mercaz two years ago and started Toras Chaim.
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