YWN Coffee Room

YWN Coffee Room » Family Matters

1. ZosHaTorah
   Member

   When should a BT be ready for his first black hat? I have a highly theoretical for you:

   1. BT has been "on the path" for many years and is fully shomer Shabbos, kosher, etc...

   2. BT is davening in a minyan morning and night, essentially 7 days a week

   3. BT wears his yarmulke 7 days a week, even at work, where he is the only frum yid most of his coworkers have ever met

   4. BT still wears jeans and t-shirt at home, and jeans and a nicer shirt when walking around town, i.e. shopping, etc. Wears his Shabbos finest - all blacks and whites, on Shabbos and Yom Tov.

   So what do you all think? Is BT ready for a black hat? His hashkafa is totally yeshivish, even if his manner of weeekday dress is far more casual. The black hat would primarily be for Shabbos and Yom Tov. And it may inspire said BT to dress more formally during weekday tefillah, so that he could also wear his black hat.

   Posted 5 months ago #

2. popa_bar_abba
   Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a woman; not Mod 80. Sometimes a bit over the top.

   He should wear one if he wants to associate with the community that wears one.
   Typically, he will wear one way before he should.

   Posted 5 months ago #

3. Raphael Kaufman
   Member

   Man, if you want to wear a black hat, wear it. If you don't want to wear a black hat, don't. There is no kedusha whatever that attaches to a Borselino. What's in your head is way more important than what's on your head.

   Posted 5 months ago #

4. Derech HaMelech
   Informative Contributor to the CR

   pba said it best as usual. Its very common for BT's to go past what they are ready for. Unfortunately the feeling of "overburdened" that comes from moving too far too fast has caused many a BT to fall back down.

   When I spoke to my R"K about taking on a new minhag in my clothing he told me to first discuss it with someone who knows me very well, like a rebbe and figure out why I felt it necessary to make this change. Then after that, to take it on slowly, such as only Shabbos an Y"T etc.

   Assuming everything in the your theoretical case was true- especially that his hashkafos are yeshivish to a strong degree in all areas- I would say that its probable that this person would be ready.

   But as in any case, the person has to contemplate how he would feel being identified as a "black hatter" and just as importantly in my opinion, how comfortable he feels among other "black hatters".

   Posted 5 months ago #

5. Josh31
   Member

   "When to buy 1st black hat?"
   When you get your first appointment as a Rosh Yeshivah.
   <That was the custom in the 1950s.>

   Posted 5 months ago #

6. popa_bar_abba
   Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a woman; not Mod 80. Sometimes a bit over the top.

   "When to buy 1st black hat?"
   When you get your first appointment as a Rosh Yeshivah.
   <That was the custom in the 1950s.>

   Isn't the 1950's when everybody in America was wearing hats?
   Why are you making things up?

   Posted 5 months ago #

7. Josh31
   Member

   "Isn't the 1950's when everybody in America was wearing hats?
   Why are you making things up?"
   They were not Yeshivish Black Hats.

   Posted 5 months ago #

8. midwesterner
   Member

   I used to have in my possession (chaval al d'avdin v'la mishtakchin) a 1960 yearbook from Philly. In it there was a picture of R' Elya Zt'l wearing a gray hat. This was several years after he was appointed rosh yeshiva in the 1950s.

   Posted 5 months ago #

9. popa_bar_abba
   Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a woman; not Mod 80. Sometimes a bit over the top.

   "Isn't the 1950's when everybody in America was wearing hats?
   Why are you making things up?"
   They were not Yeshivish Black Hats.

   You mean they weren't fedora's in the style common today in the yeshiva world?
   Well, styles do evolve over 60 years, and that isn't strange. Brims get bigger and smaller; ribbons get higher, pinches get deeper.
   There are styles in the yeshiva world. Hat styles are the most unique, since they are unique to our world.

   Posted 5 months ago #

10. ItcheSrulik
    Resident College "Shaigetz"

    In the 50's and 60's you would go out and buy a hamburg right after your smicha farher, at least if you went to YU. I don't know what you did with it if you failed.

    Posted 5 months ago #

11. DaasYochid
    Member

    "When to buy 1st black hat?"

    When a really good sale comes along.

    Posted 5 months ago #

12. ronrsr
    Member

    WHAT do one of these hats cost?

    Posted 5 months ago #

13. ZosHaTorah
    Member

    So this "theoretical" BT I'm referring to has not approached his Rav yet to discuss. About 3 years ago when he did bring up the subject with his Rav, the answer was: "when I see you in shul every morning at 6:40am, day after day after day, then we can discuss."

    A similar BT friend was consulted last night, asking if he has thought about wearing a black hat. His response: "the ba'ale batim should dress one way, and the yeshiva educated another. you're a graduate of a state college, not the Mir. I use my tallis as a second covering for my head during tefillah. Why would I need a black hat?"

    This theoretical BT isn't the least bit worried about what others will say. He simply wants to match up his outward appearance to his inner hashkofa. But he also wants to reserve the right to wear jeans (without the hat) during weekday tefillah. Is that enough to prove he's not ready?

    Posted 5 months ago #

14. Yoiske
    Member

    I'm with Kaufman on this one. the more significance you give to outward appearance, the more it will; rule your life. don't feed the beast

    Posted 5 months ago #

15. mikehall12382
    Member

    you make it seem like a black hat is needed to complete the transformation to a full BT...

    Posted 5 months ago #

16. Trying Too Hard
    Member

    "I use my tallis as a second covering for my head during tefillah. Why would I need a black hat?"

    Mincha and Maariv (although it could be other colors and still fulfill the obligation for a second covering)

    Posted 5 months ago #

17. ZosHaTorah
    Member

    "you make it seem like a black hat is needed to complete the transformation to a full BT..."

    That's funny you say that. A BT friend of mine told me the other day (jokingly) that he and his wife had a 4th child, because you couldn't really wave your "frum card" without at least 4 kids.

    Posted 5 months ago #

18. Health
    Member

    I got mine at Nine y.o. So this BT should travel back in time and buy one at Nine!

    Posted 5 months ago #

19. AinOhdMilvado
    Member

    When should one buy his black hat?

    Isn't it obvious?

    On Black Friday!!!

    Posted 5 months ago #

20. AinOhdMilvado
    Member

    btw...

    Just curious...
    On HaSh-m's score card, does one get more points for a black hat than a gray hat?
    More for a gray hat than a dark navy hat?
    More for a black felt (borsalino-type) hat than a black straw hat?
    And...
    What about a black straw hat vs. a gray felt hat?
    Also what about wearing a large black velvet yarmulka but being clean-shaven? How does that stack up point-wise against a large kipa seruga AND a full beard?
    It really gets quite complicated.
    Someone should really write an article to clarify these points.

    Posted 5 months ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.