Who wants to be a Tzadaikes like Rus?

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  • #1180181

    Health
    Participant

    Avram – “And we want to base our decisions on what the goyim do why?”

    If Goyim do something good, we Jews should learn from them.

    The more marriages, the better. You think the way it is now is better, with all these singles?

    #1180182

    Health
    Participant

    “In Nissan we were redeemed because of Righteous Women, and we will be Redeemed from this Golus because of Righteous Women.”

    Women – Do you want to bring the Redemption? If you are 25 – 40 and are single – consider marrying a 40 -55 year old male. This will make you a Tzadaikes like Rus & bring the Geula closer!

    #1180183

    If there were more men like Boaz, then there might be more young women willing to marry them despite the age difference.

    At any rate, marrying an older man is not what made Rus a tzadeikes. In fact, most tzidkanyos I have heard of were married to men about their own age, such as Rebbetzin Kanievsky and Rebbetzin Scheinberg – one has nothing to do with the other.

    I get the feeling this question is personal. Are you perhaps an older man wishing to marry a young woman?

    #1180184

    moi aussi
    Member

    I read all the comments, and I don’t think anyone mentioned that the Gemara says that an old man seeking to marry a young woman, is called a “no’ef” (lecher). I don’t have the source.

    #1180185

    cheftze
    Member

    Depends how you define young. A man, of any age, has a mitzvah (or obligation) to have children and to marry a woman capable of bearing a child.

    #1180186

    moi aussi
    Member

    cheftze, I’m not the one defining, the Gemara makes the distinction between young and old. If you’re male, you can look it up. As a woman, I don’t learn Gemara.

    #1180187

    Health
    Participant

    name withheld -“At any rate, marrying an older man is not what made Rus a tzadeikes. – one has nothing to do with the other.”

    You are mistaken. The Posuk in Rus 3:10 says that it was a Chessed to go after an older man. A Chessed is a Mitzva -so if you do Mitzvos it makes you into a Tzadeikes. I never said this is the only reason Rus was a Tzadeikes!

    #1180188

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi -“I read all the comments, and I don’t think anyone mentioned that the Gemara says that an old man seeking to marry a young woman, is called a “no’ef” (lecher).”

    The Gemorah does mention this and it’s brought down in S’A, but the reason noone mentioned it here is because you got the statement wrong. What it says is – that an old man should Not marry a Yalda. A Yalda is a young girl. This acc. to Halacha definition would be a girl under 12 y.o. Past that age she has a Chiyuv to get married.

    I was advocating older girls should consider older men.

    From above: – “If you are 25 – 40 and are single – consider marrying a 40 -55 year old male.”

    #1180189

    moi aussi
    Member

    Health,

    You have brought the definition of young girl (under 12), but you haven’t defined ‘old man’.

    You say that a girl over the age of 12 has a chiyuv to get married. I know that a woman doesn’t have at all a chyiuv to marry, the mitsva of pru u’rvu is on the man.

    #1180190

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    To all the women out there who are wondering if this thread is creepy:

    It is.

    (This is my first post on it too.)

    #1180191

    Patri
    Member

    Moi aussi The definition of an old man is irrelevant as long as the girl is over 12 (and thus not a yalda), since the only problem is for an old man to marry a girl under 12.

    And even if you argue a girl has no chiyuv to get married, she most certainly has a tremendous mitvah to do so.

    #1180192

    moi aussi
    Member

    Patri, why is the definition of an old man irrelevant? If the Torah makes a distinction between young man and old man, there must be a criteria defining old man. I would like to know what it is.

    I don’t know if it’s a mitsva for a girl to marry, I think she’s advised to marry. In any event she has no chiyuv, so Health’s statement saying otherwise is incorrect.

    #1180193

    147
    Participant

    always here

    and always on schedule

    40 & 80 per the D’var Torah I heard in Shul today.

    Posted 10 months ago #

    & Guess what happened thereafter? Boaz passed away after 1 nite, leaving Ruth yet again a young widow in her early 40’s.

    #1180194

    “To all the women out there who are wondering if this thread is creepy:

    It is.)”

    popa_bar_abba: I agree. Very creepy!

    #1180195

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi -“You say that a girl over the age of 12 has a chiyuv to get married. I know that a woman doesn’t have at all a chyiuv to marry, the mitsva of pru u’rvu is on the man.”

    It would be helpful if before you post on a topic -you would read all the posts first! There is a Chiyuv!

    From Previous:

    “This is totally not true,… She doesn’t have the Mitzva of Pru OORevu, but there are two other possible reasons of why she has to get married. (S’A)”

    #1180196

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi -“Patri, why is the definition of an old man irrelevant? If the Torah makes a distinction between young man and old man, there must be a criteria defining old man. I would like to know what it is.”

    This is a good question. Go ask your Rabbi and tell us what he says.

    #1180197

    Health
    Participant

    147 -“& Guess what happened thereafter? Boaz passed away after 1 nite, leaving Ruth yet again a young widow in her early 40’s.”

    If your implication is – that it is not a good idea -you are mistaken. Once a person is eighty he has good chance of living a few more years. It is very unlikely that the nite of marriage that the man will die.

    Boaz was an exception. His Tafkid in life was to produce Moshiach. Once he did that – he didn’t need to remain on this world any longer.

    #1180199

    avhaben
    Participant

    MA: Why would having children (pru urvu) not be a mitzvah for a woman, if for nothing else than for assisting a man fulfilling a mitzvah? Its a mitzvah to help someone else do a mitzvah. Although I’d tend to think their is a fundamental mitzvah for a woman, in of itself, in having children.

    #1180200

    147
    Participant

    Once a person is eighty he has good chance of living a few more years. ……….. You “Health” missed the mark of what i was relating. A good chance of a “few” more years [as you youirself state], but not a good chance of “many” more years.

    Obvioulsy it is tragic that Boaz did not live to see his son.

    #1180201

    moi aussi
    Member

    Health, I don’t need to read all the posts to know that a woman has no chiyuv to marry.

    Do you tell people to ask their rabbi when you have no answer? You can say you don’t know the answer.

    #1180202

    Well, Health, you still didn’t answer my question. Are you an older man hoping to marry a young woman? I think this whole thread is based on your personal desires.

    #1180203

    Health
    Participant

    name withheld -“Well, Health, you still didn’t answer my question.”

    Since when do I have to answer your questions? Some people think that if THEY ask a question – THEY must get an answer. Esp. since your question is more like an accusation than just curiosity.

    But one thing I’ll tell you – that I came up with this solution because a lot of women are remaining spinsters.

    #1180204

    Health
    Participant

    147 -“Obvioulsy it is tragic that Boaz did not live to see his son.”

    You see what Boaz gave up for the Klal. He had the Zecus of having Moshiach come from him, even though he didn’t get to know his son. This, I guess, was more important to him.

    #1180205

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi -“Health, I don’t need to read all the posts to know that a woman has no chiyuv to marry.”

    Obviously you do need to read & reread the posts because I just posted to you that Woman Does have a Chiyuv to marry! This is what it says in the Shulchan Aruch. Whomever told you differently is sadly mistaken! Just because they don’t have the Mitzva of Pru OOrevu – they still have a Chiyuv to get married.

    I think I’ve made myself crystal clear now!

    “Do you tell people to ask their rabbi when you have no answer? You can say you don’t know the answer.”

    In spite of your snarkiness -I wasn’t hiding the fact that I didn’t know, but since you brought up the question -it piqued my curiosity – so go ask your Rabbi and then come tell us.

    #1180206

    moi aussi
    Member

    Health, Women are remaining spinsters, because men always want young women. They want it when they’re 20, and they still want it when they’re 60. You will argue that an old man seeks a young woman for procreation, that’s a good cover-up for their real intent. An old man has no patience for children, an old man wants a young woman to satisfy his physical urges (no’ef).

    #1180207

    Health wrote: “Since when do I have to answer your questions? Some people think that if THEY ask a question – THEY must get an answer.”

    Well, in a way you did answer the question. At any rate, it’s amusing that you say people are not entitled to answers just because they asked, when just two weeks ago you wrote:

    “And I’m still waiting for one of these “angels” to answer Yes to the question I posted on the topic called – “Who wants to be a Tzadiekes like Rus?”.”

    #1180208

    Patri
    Member

    moi aussi: You are incorrect on both counts. Older men often do want children, as is their obligation or mitzvah (though it is even true often with non-Jewish men too.) And they are correct in seeking to quench their physical needs. The alternatives to that are much worse.

    #1180209

    Health
    Participant

    name withheld – “Well, in a way you did answer the question.”

    Indirectly I did by this – “But one thing I’ll tell you – that I came up with this solution because a lot of women are remaining spinsters.”

    But I knew you would continue to attack even though you had your answer. People like you are very predictable. Not the way to act during the Yimay of Sefira – trying to find fault in others!

    “At any rate, it’s amusing that you say people are not entitled to answers just because they asked, when just two weeks ago you wrote:”

    “And I’m still waiting for one of these “angels” to answer Yes to the question I posted on the topic called – “Who wants to be a Tzadiekes like Rus?”.”

    That question wasn’t obviously posted to anyone in particular, while you keep Hocking Me with your Naarishkeit!

    #1180210

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Reminds me of a Readers Digest anecdote.

    So this 64 year old guy decides to take a science class at the nearby college. His lab partner is a young lady in her 20’s. He thinks that there can be something between them.

    So he is at his doctor the one day, and asks his doctor (why his doctor? they’re not allowed to laugh at you) whether a 40 year gap should stand in the way of love.

    Doctor: Why, are you interested in a 104 year old?

    Health: When you tell me you would be willing to date an 80 year old woman if she could still have children, I’ll take you seriously.

    #1180211

    moi aussi
    Member

    Yes Health, you’ve made yourself perfectly clear, but I still don’t agree with you. Will you spank me now?

    You say that women have a chiyuv to marry, can you cite the source? I know that women are ADVISED to marry, not mechuyavot.

    My rabbi has better things to do than to satisfy my curiosity. However, you can look up the answer in the Shulchan Aruch, and report back to us (if you wish).

    #1180212

    moi aussi
    Member

    Patri, does anyone say that an old man shouldn’t satisfy his needs? The question is, with whom should he do so, with someone close to his age, or with someone 20 or 30 or 40 years younger than himself?

    #1180213

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi -“Health, Women are remaining spinsters, because men always want young women. They want it when they’re 20, and they still want it when they’re 60. You will argue that an old man seeks a young woman for procreation, that’s a good cover-up for their real intent. An old man has no patience for children, an old man wants a young woman to satisfy his physical urges (no’ef).”

    By your emotional response – I can only deduce either you are an older single woman or you are very close to one.

    I am trying to keep this topic based only on Halacha and logic. Your posts here are Neither!

    There is a big difference between s/o whom has “physical urges” & a “No’ef”! (A person who is Mezaneh.) But somehow I think you know this!

    If you are a single gal around 35 -40 y.o. – don’t be picky and consider marrying s/o between 55 -60 y.o. I’ll repeat from above -Women have a Chiyuv to get married. Chazal say you can’t be happy unless you’re married -“Shoroy B’lo Simcha”. (Doesn’t mean every married couple is happy!)

    A lot of bitterness in life goes away after marriage!

    #1180214

    Patri
    Member

    Health: When you tell me you would be willing to date an 80 year old woman if she could still have children, I’ll take you seriously.

    That isn’t realistic. An 80 year old woman can’t have children. There’s no point in engaging in unrealistic hypotheticals.

    #1180215

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    That isn’t realistic. An 80 year old woman can’t have children. There’s no point in engaging in unrealistic hypotheticals.

    There is. Because if you can’t even admit to it when it is impossible anyway, it kind of undercuts you.

    #1180216

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Billionaire Karl Wlaschek is marrying for the 5th time. He is 94 years old, and he hopes to have 5 or 6 more children, at the very least.

    They aren’t revealing his bride’s age, but it is unnaturally high, based on the picture. We usually would see her being like 25.

    Google “Karl Wlaschek marry”

    #1180217

    squeak
    Participant

    I would marry an 80 year old woman if she could bear children.

    It would definitely give me a way to supplement my fixed income…

    #1180218

    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“Health: When you tell me you would be willing to date an 80 year old woman if she could still have children, I’ll take you seriously.”

    I never considered this and I don’t plan on considering it. I don’t think in the abstract. I know you must have been trained to think like this in Yeshiva. But I don’t.

    This is a serious topic, whether you take it seriously or not.

    And quite frankly -I don’t think you take anything seriously!

    #1180219

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi – “Will you spank me now?”

    This isn’t refined, lady-like speech!

    “You say that women have a chiyuv to marry, can you cite the source? I know that women are ADVISED to marry, not mechuyavot.”

    You were wrong before and you’re still wrong. Women are “Mechuyavot”!

    From Shulchan Aruch – Even Haezer – 1:13.

    #1180220

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    *ahem* Issurei Bi’ah 21:16.

    #1180221

    moi aussi
    Member

    Health,

    If you talk to me as if I were a pre-schooler (I’ve made myself crystal clear) I respond to you like a pre-schooler (unlady-like).

    Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 1:13:

    “lo teshev isho belo ish shelo techoshed”

    a woman should not remain without a husband because of suspicion

    Hilchot Issurei Biyah 21:26

    “reshus le’isho shelo tinoseh le’olam”

    a woman has permission not to ever marry

    Reb Akiva Eiger

    In a place where there’s no suspicion, a woman has no obligation to marry

    #1180222

    Naysberg
    Member

    The Chofetz Chaim married a woman much much younger than himself. His second wife (I think it was her first marriage) was only niftar in New York in the 1980’s or 1990’s (and her kever is in Queens.)

    #1180223

    moi aussi
    Member

    Hilchot Issurei Biyah

    “shelo yiso zoken yalda shedovor zeh gorem l’znus”

    an old man shall not marry a young woman as this will lead to adultery

    Yevamot 101b

    “k’lech etsel shekmosech ve’al tachnis ketata letoch beisech”

    a man shall marry a woman of his age and not bring strife into his home

    #1180224

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    And quite frankly -I don’t think you take anything seriously!

    I take peoples money very seriously. I will take yours if I get near it.

    #1180226

    Health
    Participant

    PBA -“So he is at his doctor the one day, and asks his doctor (why his doctor? they’re not allowed to laugh at you)”

    Oh, Medical Personnel laugh at people all the time, just we do it behind their back!

    #1180227

    Health
    Participant

    moi aussi -“Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 1:13:

    “lo teshev isho belo ish shelo techoshed”

    a woman should not remain without a husband because of suspicion”

    Yes, this is the way we Pasken!

    “Hilchot Issurei Biyah

    “shelo yiso zoken yalda shedovor zeh gorem l’znus”

    an old man shall not marry a young woman as this will lead to adultery”

    Mentioned above previously -it says Yalda -a girl less than 12, not young woman!

    “Yevamot 101b

    “k’lech etsel shekmosech ve’al tachnis ketata letoch beisech”

    a man shall marry a woman of his age and not bring strife into his home”

    This was discussed on page 1 & 2 of this topic! Please read all posts before posting.

    “Hilchot Issurei Biyah 21:26

    “reshus le’isho shelo tinoseh le’olam”

    a woman has permission not to ever marry”

    The Rambam is a Rishon. We Pasken like the Shulchan Aruch.

    “Reb Akiva Eiger

    In a place where there’s no suspicion, a woman has no obligation to marry”

    This means a town with No men or just Men whom can’t have kids. In other words bascially an all Women town.

    So it comes out a Woman has a CHIYUV to get married!

    #1180229

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    It’s only fitting that this topic be bumped.

    #1180230

    Health
    Participant

    Torah613Torah -“It’s only fitting that this topic be bumped.”

    Yes, I know – it’s a great topic – started by a great guy. 😉

    #1180231

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Health, I have news for you; whoever reads this gets the creeps, and doesn’t think very highly of the guy who started it. It’s in your best interest that this topic NOT be bumped.

    #1180232

    shnitzy
    Member

    Agreed.

    #1180233

    interjection
    Participant

    DaasYochid: true say!!

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