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Why Your Grandchildren will be Eating Pork if They are not Vegetarians

(26 posts)
  • Started 9 months ago by yitayningwut
  • Latest reply from WolfishMusings

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  1. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    In fifty years from now, most observant Jews will either be vegetarians or they will hypothetically have no Halachic objection to regularly consuming pork. Here’s why.

    Scientists are currently working on developing in vitro meat. From Wikipedia: “The process of developing in vitro meat involves taking muscle cells and applying a protein that helps the cells to grow into large portions of meat. Once the initial cells have been obtained, additional animals would not be needed – akin to the production of yogurt cultures. Conceivably, one animal could provide more than a billion pounds of in vitro meat to feed the world's population for at least several hundred years.”

    They have been successful, but at the moment the meat they’ve produced is prohibitively expensive. However, as the Wikipedia article suggests, in the future “the price of in vitro meat at retail outlets like grocery stores and supermarkets may decrease prices to levels that middle-class consumers consider to be "inexpensive" due to technological advancements.” This seems fairly reasonable.

    What does this have to do with us? Simple. As with every other new thing, there will be a disagreement among the rabbis. Some rabbis will argue that in vitro meat is prohibited if it does not originate from a properly slaughtered kosher animal, and others will argue that anything grown merely from cell tissue is not Halachically considered meat.

    At the same time that this debate is raging, there will be another major debate raging in the political arena. Once it becomes possible to produce perfectly good quality meat at affordable prices by simply cultivating certain cells, there will really be no need to end the life of an animal in order to enjoy a steak. This will in turn prompt animal rights groups to go into a frenzy about the legality of killing animals for food. They will lobby the lawmakers, saying that until now it may have been excusable, but now that meat is just as easily procured without ending the lives of any animals there is no excuse for the law to allow one to end an animal’s life for food. Eventually the lawmakers will buckle under the pressure because they won’t have a really good answer for the animal rights people, and they won’t have anything to lose anyway.

    That’s when the big Halachic discussion will reach its peak. Those for the consumption of in vitro meat will not care that much about this new law, because it’s all kosher anyway. They will continue to put their in vitro pork in the cholent l’kavod Shabbos and this law won’t bother them one bit (except maybe for some Hashkafic issue related to korbanos). Those against, on the other hand, will be at a crossroads. They will have to either live like Marranos and secretly shecht animals or they will simply become vegetarians. The latter seems far more likely for the majority of the population. (The funny thing is that they will probably be the only vegetarians left, because all those who had been vegetarians for animal rights reasons will have already jumped on the in vitro meat bandwagon.)

    Therefore, as I see it, in 50 years from now your average observant Jew will either be a vegetarian, or will be consuming pork on a regular basis.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  2. choppy
    How Much Wood Can Joseph Chop If Joseph Could Get Away From The Coffee Room

    We didn't give up Bris Milah under the Soviets. And we won't give it up under Bloomberg. Nor will we give up shechita.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  3. Avi K
    Member

    1. There is no power to make new gezerot in our time.

    2. Rav Yosef Albo says (Sefer HaIkarim) that the Dor HaMabul's basic mistake was thinking that because they had to be vegetarians they were on the same level as the animals and should therefore act accordingly. Thus, the children of Noach were explicitly allowed to eat meat. Rav Kook also says that vegetarianism is not for our time but only after Mashiach comes.

    3. There already is "kosher pork".

    Posted 9 months ago #
  4. oomis
    Member

    OY, I am getting SUCH a headache!!!!!!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  5. Sam2
    The Even-Keeled and Erudite Shmuely Wollenberger from Las Vegas

    Choppy: That is a nice statement, but it didn't really address his point.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  6. avi e
    Member

    Or we will get a heimishe company to make in vitro meat from a properly shechted, kosher animal, and go on living as before.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  7. OY!! We will never eat TREIF! What a silly post!!!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  8. Curiosity
    Not a cat person

    I hate the animal rights loonies.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  9. Too many unknown variables. I ain't going to lose any sleep over it at the moment.

    The theoretical halachic side to it is very interesting, though.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  10. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    The point of this post was not to comment on whether or not in vitro meat is kosher or on whether vegetarianism is a vice or a virtue. The point of this post was to note - in a a half serious, half tongue-in-cheek fashion - certain sociological factors and patterns that exist within our communities, and an interesting (to me at least) effect they might have.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  11. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

    yireh li, that most people will claim it doesn't taste as good, and will still eat real meat.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  12. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    Popa - Maybe, but I think what people don't really get about this is that it IS real meat! They're actually growing the meat from cells in the muscle tissue. It's not artificial.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  13. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

    true true. but, it won't have the same blood in it, and people say that meat tastes different depending on what the animal ate also, so there seem to be nuances beyond the cell structure.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  14. popa_bar_abba
    Incorrigible; semi-retarded; eccentric; perhaps a man; somewhere between mean and average; sometimes only a bit over the top; arbitrarily cynical.

    also, I'll be happy enough to have frum grandchildren. I won't care if they eat brussel sprouts as cholent.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  15. Tnewman
    Member

    Laboratory grown meat is not now and will not be cost effective to produce compared to growing meat live on the hoof. The lab procedure is a G-dsend (literally) for burn victims but don't expect to replace ranches with vats. You have a rhetorical discussion. Nothing more.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  16. yaakov doe
    Member

    Why would we it it, instead of cholunt, kigel, herring and kishka as we have for generations?

    Sushi is bad enough, but man made pork is going too far!

    Posted 9 months ago #
  17. "Laboratory grown meat is not now and will not be cost effective"

    I believe the same thing was said about cell phones.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  18. Well, i know who will be eating the pork, as long as all the ingredients on the label look kosher

    Posted 9 months ago #
  19. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    Yaakov doe - why not try a new delicacy lekavod shabbos? I can even hear people taynehing that this is a fulfillment of the midrash that says pig will be kosher in the future.

    Abba murray - lol

    Posted 9 months ago #
  20. @Abba Murray: And I know who will be peering at it with a microscope, hoping to find bugs.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  21. Showjoe
    Member

    i know someone who eats candy that has pig gelatin in it (Sfara being its from pig bones not pig meat)

    Posted 9 months ago #
  22. yitayningwut
    I have no idea wut this screen name means. Do YOU know what this screen name means?

    Showjoe - So do I.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  23. WolfishMusings
    The Wolf

    Undoubtedly, we all eat food that contains atoms that were once part of something unkosher.

    The Wolf

    Posted 9 months ago #
  24. HaLeiVi
    Plays the aeolian harp by air

    Hayotze Min Hatamei Tammei, so I can't really imagine anyone serious being Mattir something grown from Treifa meat.

    As to Popa's Taana, I think that even more than the nuances is the texture. By just growing cells it won't be a steak. If they will want to duplicate a real piece of meat they'll have to intersperse different cells. That will definitely be artificial. It will probably do well as a cold cut.

    Posted 9 months ago #
  25. twisted
    pretzel

    There is a deah in the Rishonim that the pig is named chazir because it will revert to being kosher (chozer ltohorso) in future times, so 50 years, maybe. tzipisah l'yeshua?

    Posted 9 months ago #
  26. WolfishMusings
    The Wolf

    There is a deah in the Rishonim that the pig is named chazir because it will revert to being kosher (chozer ltohorso) in future times, so 50 years, maybe. tzipisah l'yeshua?

    Whenever anyone mentions this, I am reminded of Harry Turtledove's short story "The R-Strain."

    The Wolf

    Posted 9 months ago #

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