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how should guys and girls treat each other in a not jewish college that goes by halachos?
Professionally and politely cordial rather than casually and unreservedly so, and only if necessary.
But I can’t imagine there are many not-Jewish colleges which go by halacha 😉
If the college is Co-ed than it’s probably not “By Halocas”. The same way they would treat people outside of college.
You should drop out of college and go to a beis yaakov seminary until you find a chosson.
What is the pressure? The uncertainty? Easy. Just say I am an orthodox person and i don’t touch the opposite gender anytime i want.
I am an orthodox man and women extend hands to shake many times. It’s awkward everytime. “I cannot shake hands with a lady for religious reasons.” If you are particular, then Heaven will help you, as the Talmud assures.
And here we ask the public to share all their shaking-hands stories and tips. Some people wear gloves, some cough into their hands and apologize “but I don’t want to get you sick, too,” some bring their little children with them to do the honors, some make sure to shmear something gross on their hands before meeting someone of the opposite gender, and others just stick by their guns and say the truth. The latter is preferable and creates a great opportunity for either awkwardness or a kiddush Hashem, or both, depending on how it works out. I think you did the right thing, Sparkly. If you come across confident, it can be a kiddush Hashem. You don’t have to apologize for keeping the Torah.
No non jewish college goes by halacha. Pay attention in english class to learn how to properly construct a sentence.
Regarding how to properly interact with the opposite gender, that really is something that should have been discussed when to decision to attend this college was made. I assume this decision was not yours alone. Speak to your parents, rebbetzin or family rav for proper guidance.
Nobody is grading you. But if you want people to understand you…..
As for interactions with the opposite gender, that is why you have parents, teachers and a family rav.
This might come across as harsh but in my opinion anyone who doesn’t know how to properly interact with members of the opposite gender should not be put in position to to so. I also think that if this was a legitimate option all along it should have been incorported into your chinuch. Forget the opposite gender, people must know the proper boundaries with same gender non jews as well.
“what should you say when a guy asks you to high five because you did the best on the test? This really happened to me. the guy tried high fiving and he was like please high five me and i was like shocked and didnt know what to do… so in the end i just said it had to do with religion… anything i should do when this probably will happen again?”
You did the right thing Sparkly! That is what I always do. I very politely say something like, “I’m sorry, but I don’t shake hands with men for religious reasons.” They almost always understand and respect me for it. And if there are some that don’t – that’s their problem, not mine!
It’s important to realize that a lot of people define the terms Kiddush Hashem & Chillul Hashem incorrectly. Some people think that if you are following Halacha and others look down at you for it, it is a Chillul HAshem. Nothing could be further from the truth!! It is actually a tremendous Kiddush Hashem. Whether something is a Kiddush Hashem or Chilul Hashem is not dependent on others’ reactions. When you are doing the right thing it called a Kiddush Hashem and when you are doing the wrong things it is called a Chilul Hashem.
So even if they dislike you for it (which is unlikely), it is a tremendous Kiddush Hashem!! And besides, you don’t really want to have anything to do with s.o. who would dislike you for sticking to your principles!
What worked for me was to be respectful, cordial, and consistently formal. “I’m sorry, I am religious and don’t high-five/shake hands with any men. Thank you.” I was careful not to be too friendly with guys ever, so as not to send mixed messages. Be nice, be respectful, but be distant as well.
apushatayid- I agree with you. To me, her writing appears to be from an elementary school student. If she wrote a cover letter in the way she is writing here, she will never get a job. She maybe a genius, but she writes like she was never learnt the basics in English Composition. Once someone knows how to write properly they always write properly unless they want to fit in in with the uneducated (minorities).
Moderator This is corrective criticism. Most personnel department have software that weeds out resumes and cover letters with spelling and grammatical errors before forwarding them for consideration. Those with errors are discarded. She is going to spend thousand of dollars on education with no chance of getting a job. This is why many colleges have remedial courses especially in English and Math (because they never learnt it prior). You can’t rely on spell check to correct these types of errors errors.
Abba_S, I wouldn’t say this if you didn’t write the above post so please accept it in that context –
before you comment on her writing you may want to re-read many of your posts. the punctuation, errors etc is very similar, in my opinion. I just assumed english was not your first language. Either way, I find that many posters here may be very articulate face to face but aren’t able to express themselves in writing as they do in thought or language. Unless they are asking for opinions, or harassing other posters you just look past it.
Sparkly, that’s okay. You can’t control other people’s feelings, you can only take responsibility for your own responses and your part of the interactions. As long as you’re doing that, you’re doing fine.
SL-I agree with what you are saying but for example, why does she never start a sentence with a capital letter, never use an apostrophe. She seem to be the only one who does it.
What I am trying to say is that if she makes these error in the real world she will be unemployable.
Syag Lchochma I don’t know what was offensive. I am only doing this as corrective criticism and I don’t know why after she is told that her posts have errors, she doesn’t take the time to review them before submitting them. On the other hand when she submitted the compositions in college they were probably reviewed and corrected by others.
Sparkly – as in your own feelings?
Gofish: “Sparkly – as in your own feelings?”
Sparkly: “gofish-yes”
Sparkly, are you talking about the boys in college or about the comments someone posted about your writing?
Sparkly – I know the guys in college like you. You had said something about stumbling blocks, so I thought you were talking about the goyish boys in college who like you.
Sparkly, it is very natural to have such feelings. The question is what you do with those feelings.
This is why the Torah and Chazal have set up so many gedarim. Feelings can be fickle, yet so powerful, and they can lead us to places we can regret afterwards. Boundaries and precautions ensure that you are protected from impulsivity or mistakes.
While I have a lot more to say, I think most of it is beyond the scope of the CR. Do you have a mentor irl that you can discuss things with? Being in a secular environment all day can lead one to be in sort of an isolated bubble spiritually, and it’s important to stay connected to people who share your goals and spiritual aspirations.
Sparkly – apparently that’s also what gofish thought you meant.
Gofish – read Sparkly’s last comment. Apparently she didn’t mean what you (and I) thought she meant. It is confusing with multiple conversations going on at once. In any case, what you wrote is completely true and important.
Oh, thanks lilmod ulelamaid. So then what was with the stumbling blocks?
These posts should be numbered so we can refer to the ones we mean, because when posts are not published in real time, crossed wires happen.
“Even if he’s an MO rabbi?” I think that is pretty offensive. I know some MO rabbanim who are special, holy people, who are saturated with Torah and are some of the most special people I know. No need to knock all of MO with one broad stroke.
So, I’m a bit confused now – what did you mean by stumbling blocks?
Gofish – while I agree with you to some extent, there are different definitions of MO, which makes things confusing (and one of the reasons why I am very anti-labels as a general rule!). Sparkly has made it clear from some of her other posts that her definition of MO involves being on a lower level religiously, and possibly, not following halacha.
Sparkly – Many people don’t realize this but not being shomer negiah is one of the biggest aveiros around, much bigger than being mechalel Shabbos or eating Trafe. It is one of the few things that it is better to be killed than be oveir on. Not being tznius is also one of the biggest aveiros because you are sending to people to Gehinnom which is the greatest act of cruelty a person can perform.
That being said, it’s great that people keep whatever they can, and every Mitzvah has tremenous schar. If someone feels that it is too hard for him to be shomer negiah, it is great that he is still keeping what he can, as long as he doesn’t deny the Torah and doesn’t say that according to the Torah you don’t have to be shomer negiah.
Abba, your first post in this thread has at least one grammatical error. Many people have different writing styles depending on context. For example, any number of people text or email me using non-words such as “ur.” They’re all capable of writing standard English when the occasion requires it.
LU: Sort of. Kreivah L’Arayos might be Yeihareg V’al Ya’avor, but it’s still only a Lav. Shabbos is an Issur Skilah. Shabbos is more Chamur. Kreivah has one Chumra attached because of its status as Abizraihu, not on its own merit.
Sparkly – I realize that. That’s what upsets me so much when I see people dressed untzniusly. Often, they are davka really sweet, really nice girls and they have no idea that they are doing something cruel. Often they are the kind of people who are davka very into bein adam l’chaveiro and doing chesed and would never willingly do something to hurt another person. That is why it bothers me so much. I’m sure that if they realized what they are doing, they would not do it, so I think it so sad that they don’t realize!
If they were cruel people, it wouldn’t bother me as much – I would just say that they are reshayim and there is nothing to do about it. What bothers me is that they are nice people who would not be doing this if they realized what they are doing!
Sparkly,
So they’re sending people to gehinnom inadvertently. That’s not so great either.
there is no heter whatsoever, remember college doesn’t make you rich.
karlbenmarx – heter for what?
“the guys in college like me they wouldnt say that to me.”
Unless I read everything in this thread I would have difficulty understanding this sentence as it is constructed.
Is it saying, the guys in college, like me, wouldnt say that to me (meaning, other guys similar to you would never say such a thing)?
Is it saying, the guys in college like me, they wont say that to me. Leaving it up to other sentences to indicate whether the writer is male or female.
Either way, what I find disturbing is the following statement:
“but i have no problem with not jewish girls. i always make not jewish girl friends.”
The same way their are boundaries with members of the opposite gender, there are boundaries with non jews. For whatever reason you seem to disregard this. Perhaps it is because you have erected the appropriate boundaries? If you did not, it is just as important. Either way, I still maintain that the most appropriate means of learning appropriate boundaries with members of the opposite gender are through your parents, Rebbetzin, Rav etc. not the internet, as well meaning as people might be.
Sparkly: “Meno- so your saying that by sometimes wearing shorter skirts im sending people to gehinom? i dont think so…”
Uh, Sparkly, hate to break it to you, I guess this is something you haven’t learned yet, but you are actually… When you cause people to do aveiros, you are sending them to gehenom. That’s the reason why people get so upset about girls dressing untzniusly! If it didn’t affect anyone else, people wouldn’t shrei about it so much since it would just be a personal decision.
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