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151. gavra_at_work
     Member

     intellegent:

     whether women should drive or not. you seemed to be saying no, and then turned around and clarified. If you were refering to something else, as we agree, you were not clear, and I apologize.

     I think the quote is refering to free time avalible (more now) as opposed to "Kol Kavod" being due to "the times" vs. derech bas yisroel. "Kol Kavod" is a Hanhaga that does not change with the times. What is considered "respectful" (and a husband MUST be respectful to his wife) does change with the person (as per expectations).

     Reminds me of what someone else posted a while back (don't remember who):

     "The man is the head of the house, but the woman is the neck. And she can turn the head any way she wants."

     Posted 3 years ago #

152. dd
     Member

     Whenever I wonder how our cousins, bnei yishmael in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan can be so extreme in their customs, I come to Yeshiva World and realize that some of us are only a step or two away from that.

     For the life of me, I can't understand this thread. I understand the original post as a sociological question about how some communities can have such rules. But to see that so many people here take it seriously as having any possible relevence to halacha lema'aseh is baffling.

     I did notice that a number of posters asked about the consistency of kollel and women staying at home. None of the usual gang of kannaim here bothered to answer.

     Posted 3 years ago #

153. The Big One
     Joseph

     When the dd's of the world start making letzonas and chozek of the Acheinu Bnei Yisroel for keeping tznius as perscribed by our Rabbonim, by calling us "extremists", "Taliban", "Yishmaelim", "frummies", etc. etc. we stand up proudly and say "Yes, we do still have emunas chachomim."

     Posted 3 years ago #

154. The Big One
     Joseph

     Zalman, Yasher Koach for that beautiful Torah! All those Gemora's, Poiskim, Meforshim.

     intellegent, Thank you for your sane comments.

     dd, It is truly disgusting that someone who claims to be a Jew would denigrate Bnei Torah who uphold tznius with irresponsible terms like yishmaelim, frummies, taliban, extremist, etc. You truly need to do some introspection. Yes, it very much does have relevance halacha lmaaisa, your inability to understand it not withstanding.

     Rabbosai, the point of all the Shulchon Orach and Rambam and the Gemora's is not that ladies cannot go out. If there is a tachlis and they must go out, they can. Even if they have a valid reason to go out every day. But they must minimize it to the times that it is a necessity and not stam to go out.

     Posted 3 years ago #

155. Josh31
     Member

     The YWN blogs are getting a wide reputation of having hard kanoim (zealots). This topic brings out the real hardliners.
     As a matter of fact, religious zealotry is ascendant worldwide and we are not immune to this trend.
     Chasidic customs that for generations were implemented in a very civilized way are now getting into the wrong hands.
     And I do notice a pattern that many of the most zealous in the area of Tznius are very Meikel (lenient) in areas of Choshen Mishpat (interpersonal relationships).

     Posted 3 years ago #

156. gavra_at_work
     Member

     When the "The Big One"'s of the world start making letzonas and chozek of the Acheinu Bnei Yisroel for Deciding that anyone who is not like them is a rosha, by calling us "extremists", "Taliban", "Yishmaelim", "going to Gehennom", etc. etc. we stand up proudly and say "Yes, we do still have emunas chachomim. We do not make up our own halachas based on our feelings or the latest chumrah trend, we ask our Rav."

     Sorry, couldn't help myself, even though I try not to respond to the flamer/troll.

     Posted 3 years ago #

157. Chuck Schwab
     Member

     Josh: Apparently you prefer the hate-mongering YU'niks who have a dime a dozen blogs who's entire geshmak in living is to attack Raabonim, Gedolim and plain ordinary Torah observant Yidden as well as various chumros etc. The fact of the matter is those Jews who are stringent with tznios are also stringent with Choshen Mishpat as well.

     gavra_at_work: When left-of-center people like yourself try to shut up anyone who they disagree with, like you did in a previous thread telling someone to not post anything in the thread after you offered your diatribe, you discredit yourself and your entire left-of-center philosophy.

     No one here, not a single poster, said every Jewish woman must stop driving. Not one. Its the mo types that cannot tolerate that there are Kehilos Kedoshim that uphold these lofty standards as per the directives of their Gedolim.

     Posted 3 years ago #

158. Josh31
     Member

     More bashing of YU.
     If it were not for YU, there would be tens of thousands that would be lost to Torah Judaism.
     When I said above "most zealous in the area of Tznius" I was referring to those who take it upon themselves to enforce Tznius on others, and those who adopt extreme levels to call attention to themselves. There is widespread agreement in Orthodox Jewish circles that religious enforcement in inappropriate nowadays.

     Posted 3 years ago #

159. ujm
     Joseph

     josh, you are correct about that in the sense that "if it were not for YU, there would be tens of thousands that would be lost to Torah Judaism" in that many of those Yidden would not be frum at all, and YU is a much better alternative to being frei. Where you are not correct is that halacha itself requires that halacha be enforced. I don't know whatever gave you the idea that "there is widespread agreement in Orthodox Jewish circles" otherwise. As I said, halacha itself requires that it be enforced. I have no idea what you mean "those who adopt extreme levels" but kol hakovod to those that adapt extreme levels of tznius for themselves. May many more do so as well. Those who are on the madreiga on maintaining extreme levels of tznius are a zchus and an encouragement for the rest of us. More power to them and may we all pick up a little bit from them. It is an aveira gamur when people mock those who adapt chumros. I am tired of those in the mo crowd (and there is no other way to put it) that say there is too many chumras, etc.

     Posted 3 years ago #

160. Josh31
     Member

     ujm: Try this. Go to your nearest Charedi Torah leader and tell him you want to form a Tznius Patrol to attack local women not dressed properly. If you are a womean, also tell him you want to start wearing a Burqa. If you are a man tell him you want your wife in a Burqa.

     Posted 3 years ago #

161. ujm
     Joseph

     josh, i'm not sure where you're trying to go with that, but that is as nonsensical as going to your nearest mo leader and telling him you want to form a committee to attack all women who don't utilize mixed swimming pools. that scenerio and the one you described are as equally unlikely either to be suggested or to be practiced. actually you're scenario is far more unlikely. what you describe at best sounds like the type of story peddled by anti-semitic rags of the nature of haaretz and ynet when they are seeking an avenue to attack chareidim. it can't even be described as an exaggeration, as it doesn't happen anywhere but in their hate-filled minds.

     Posted 3 years ago #

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