February 6, 2018 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1463682
“It’s one thing to say that there are those that are, and quite another
to say that you are.”- we are only saying it because we understand it/want it/ know of it even if we aren’t personally it / are actually it.February 6, 2018 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1463698
Thank you MTAB.
That’s one thing that seems to be better in some smaller, more OOT communities.
Acceptance and more appreciation of Baalei Baatim.
I’ve seen that personally in a few smaller communities.
I’m looking for either an OOT girl, or at least someone with that kind of outlook.
Living more simply, etc
Sure, we all like nice things, but not everything is a necessityFebruary 6, 2018 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1463819
Thank you malach and shopping613.February 6, 2018 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1463821
All the people I’ve gone out with are OOT, I cannot imagine marrying someone from in town, but then again, you never know. If it gets redt, and sonds good…I’ll see.
But I totally get you, it’s like 2 different planets.February 6, 2018 4:20 pm at 4:20 pm #1463830
Just finished a half hour of learning Halacha. 🙂
Gevaldik! Keep it up!February 6, 2018 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1463955
==Most people I KNOW who are in kollel/looking for kollel, know what they are getting into.==
they don’t know, they think it means an old car
young people have no idea how expensive the world is today and the frum world 3x as much, part of the problem is that childhood is all school, so one has no sense how hard it is to earn money
parents need to show kids the rent bill
the tuition bill
6 kids times $12,000 each for yeshivish school, $25,000 for modern, that’s $72,000 after tax, means you need 100k a year just to pay tuitionFebruary 6, 2018 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1463956
==That’s one thing that seems to be better in some smaller, more OOT communities.==
try the Midwest, people are so much nicer there and live much more simply
Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, south bend, st louisFebruary 6, 2018 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1463968
Thank you shopping613.
For example, I own a 1997 Toyota Camry.
As long as it’s clean and presentable,
why shouldn’t I be able to date in it?
That kind of mindset is what i’m looking for.February 6, 2018 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1463969
I’m BT. My Hebrew is primitive. I can daven with it but cannot study original texts. My learning currently consists of learning Hilchos Shabbos and reading Meam Loez for weekly parshah (but often I don’t get all the way through.) My strength (I think) is in chesed, not Torah learning. I am obligated to learn Torah and enjoy what I learn, but I recognize some people at 120 will have built their name through Torah learning and others in other ways – Chesed, eg. The army needs some generals, some Army, some Navy, etc. If the Navy man deserts his post and decides he’d rather be an army man, and even wins the battle, he’ll be in jail for life. Because he deserted his post. Not everyone is supposed to learn all day. Maybe after Moshiach comes. But who is going to have money to give to tzedakah? Who is going to be an example to the outside world? There are a lot of paths to serve H-shem. Not everyone is for Kollel. Who is going to support the Kollel anyway? You need parnassah for that. And isn’t Zebulon honored more than Yissachar?
I’m old enough now though that I don’t really care what other people think of me – I just need to make sure I’m doing right, working hard, and checking in with my Rebbe once in a while to make sure I’m on the right path.
Who cares what other people think. Just make sure you’re good with HKBH.
My two cents.February 6, 2018 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #1463988
There are cities I’m thinking of are on the east coast.
Don’t want to be specific.February 6, 2018 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #1464040
Any other thoughts?February 6, 2018 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #1464057
it all comes down to faith
hashem will help you
you just do the right thing
all will be wellFebruary 6, 2018 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #1464070
Thank you for all of the replies.
I do feel better already.February 6, 2018 7:16 pm at 7:16 pm #1464067
Joseph-thanks for the cute thought.February 6, 2018 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #1464086
This has really turned out to be quite an interesting conversation.
I hope there’s more!
Anyone else have anything to add/share?February 7, 2018 1:33 am at 1:33 am #1464182
“For example, I own a 1997 Toyota Camry.
As long as it’s clean and presentable,
why shouldn’t I be able to date in it?”
I won’t tell you that there aren’t many very spoiled girls out there who think they deserve the world. Sometimes their parents put that in their heads. I believe that in general dating today is one sided with the boys doing nearly all the work and the girls sitting around deciding who is good enough for them.
But there are exceptions. There are still some nice girls who want a nice guy. That’s who you should look for and don’t get embittered by all the problematic people. One rav told me to be business like about shiduchim. Don’t get wrapped up emotionally in it.
Certainly you can date in your car. But I do have a concern. Did you say you live out of town? That can be challenging especially for the guy who for mysterious reasons is expected to do all the traveling.February 7, 2018 2:46 am at 2:46 am #1464223
MTAB, you are talking about those entitled girls who want it all and don’t know what they are getting into? Yes there are those, I don’t really understand why anyone would marry such spoiled brats.
You can usually tell while you are dating if the girl is the entitled kind.
Who cares about the future, and money, why would you want to marry anyone with such bad middos?
I live in Israel in a yeshivish american community. There’s plenty of the entitled spoiled brats, I’ve babysat tons, and there were plenty in my high school class too, but there’s also plenty of wonderful girls who grew up in regular home with not to little or too much and know how hard it is out there to make it.February 7, 2018 3:03 am at 3:03 am #1464235
==I live in Israel in a yeshivish american community. There’s plenty of the entitled spoiled brats, I’ve babysat tons, and there were plenty in my high school class too, but there’s also plenty of wonderful girls who grew up in regular home with not to little or too much and know how hard it is out there to make it.==
As the Gemara says, Jews go to the stars or the dust (Megillah 17a). There are many nebach, selfish ones, and then there are more than a few really decent, sweet, idealistic ones. Many of the chassidick and yerushalmi young women are really special. Here’s how you tell the difference, the ones with problems stand in the middle of the sidewalk and yap loudly or type endlessly into their phones. The good ones are modest, let people walk by, aren’t loud, are busy with children. God bless them. They are wonderful souls.February 7, 2018 3:10 am at 3:10 am #1464241
One thing that really bothered me about shidichum was meeting women who had a long list of deal breakers about the shiduchim but didn’t do research beforehand. So for example, there were more than a few women – as noted here – who for some reason think Torah study must always involve a chavrusa. Me, I had one chavrusah, most nights I studied by myself, listen to recordings, different stuff. But to them, that’s like eating traife. I don’t know where they get this. But OK, that’s your thing. Then before the date, before I travel 3 hours, do some homework and list all your hakpados and if you must, nix the date. But don’t waste my time. I think they get so spoiled by the dating process, by getting picked up and taken out to dinner, they just take it all for granted.February 7, 2018 6:23 am at 6:23 am #1464270
Getting picked up? Hahahaha, I have to travel by bus. You wish I got picked up.
Dinner? Even more of a joke. After we get engaged, you go out for dinner.
I spend much time, physical, and emotional energy on each date. I do my homework in advance.
I’ve never heard, been redt, or known that boys learn alone. My father does, but he’s much older. I also know many married folk who learn while their kids are sleeping at home and gives their wife time to go out with family or friends.
But not single boys.
Not opposed, just never heard of it.February 7, 2018 6:30 am at 6:30 am #1464251
“I think they get so spoiled by the dating process, by getting picked up and taken out to dinner, they just take it all for granted.”- I don’t think so.
not where i live and not the people i know anywhere else.February 7, 2018 6:38 am at 6:38 am #1464247
“getting one sheitel, and don’t really buy any clothing, jewlery, and or makeup for the first few years of marriage.
Their kids don’t get dressed in luxury clothing, and sometimes the electricity goes off or there’s no food in th house at the end of the month.”- shopping613 really?
all the kollel couples i know live very simply but don’t lack anything, their electricity does not go off ever and they always have enough food to fill them up and nt even just bread and milk,
even my brother who brings in all the money in the house from kollel (my sister in law doesn’t work now) with 2 little kids has enough money to buy whatever he needs, pay his bills and rent, yes he tries not to buy extras and to find the best deals but without running around all the stores to buy the cheapest items in each…February 7, 2018 6:39 am at 6:39 am #1464290
==Getting picked up? Hahahaha, I have to travel by bus. You wish I got picked up.
Dinner? Even more of a joke. After we get engaged, you go out for dinner.==
you live in Israel, right? it’s different there. in new York, the men are treated like dogsFebruary 7, 2018 6:44 am at 6:44 am #1464299
” in new York, the men are treated like dogs”- not by everyone.February 7, 2018 6:45 am at 6:45 am #1464248
“That’s one thing that seems to be better in some smaller, more OOT communities.”- I love OOT!!
wish i was one.:)February 7, 2018 6:59 am at 6:59 am #1464304
==I’ve never heard, been redt, or known that boys learn alone.==
i’m not sure what you mean
if a guy has a chavrusa one day , goes to a shiur one day a week, listens to a recording of a shiur one day, reads a book one day a week, he’s not learning alone
i don’t if it’s good to only have chavrusos, that’s the blind leading the blindFebruary 7, 2018 6:59 am at 6:59 am #1464303
MTAB, go give masculists a bad name somewhere else, maybe somewhere where they don’t treat dogs like babies.February 7, 2018 8:50 am at 8:50 am #1464318
Good morning everyone.February 7, 2018 11:31 am at 11:31 am #1464499
“MTAB, go give masculists a bad name somewhere else, maybe somewhere where they don’t treat dogs like babies.”
Perhaps it’s time to close this thread. Schneubs has received answers and chizuk. We wouldn’t want things to degenerate into a squabble about dating and cause him to become jaded before he’s even started!February 13, 2018 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #1468820
I am 21 years old and looking for the type of guy who you are. There are plenty of girls that are looking for that.February 15, 2018 6:56 am at 6:56 am #1469671
“Because learning doesn’t come naturally to me.
I get virtually no enjoyment from it.
It just doesn’t flow.”
Dont be nervice “metoch sheho ein lishma ba lishma”….. just continue having a daily learning seder each day after work and when the right time comes Hashem will make you come to love learning torah & understand it quicker & on a higher level, we just have to do our hishtadlus.
Hope you find a shidduch soon & also come to understand torah & learning very soon.
May Hashem answer all your tefillosFebruary 15, 2018 6:58 am at 6:58 am #1469674
“It feels so hard when everyone’s talking in learning, and it’s basically all above your head. Seeing people quote gemaras in their sleep etc…It all feels so overwhelming.”
I’m a BT, so I know the feeling, but it’s a great opportunity to work on anivus. I try to have the attitude that it’s not embarrassing to ask questions, it’s embarrassing if you could know something but you don’t because you were ashamed to ask. Nobody has a right to look down on you for asking—your learning is just as valuable as theirs and if they worked on their anivus they would realize that.
As a girl in shidduchim I want my husband to enjoy learning, 1. for his own sake, because he needs to learn and I don’t want him to be unhappy, and 2. because children learn from what we do much more than what we say, and if they can tell we dislike something or see it as a chore they will too. I’ve also been taught that to have the father learning (I don’t mean full time, but for a little while every day) elevates the atmosphere of the home. It doesn’t matter to me what topic he learns, or how (shiur, by himself, b’chavrusa), but I want it to be important to him and for him to feel positive about it.
Of course you can date in your car if it’s clean.
I am looking for a working boy, but I don’t know if it’s shayach because I’m probably more modern than you and also I’m bit older. Anyway, the same way you’re looking for an out-of-town type girl there will be out-of-town girls (or in-town girls who don’t fit the in-town stereotype) looking for a boy like you. There are girls who think staying out of debt is more important than impressing people. There are girls who won’t be embarrassed to say “my husband’s not in kollel”. I don’t know that shidduchim will go easy for you, because it’s in Hashem’s hands, but if it’s not easy it’s not because there’s anything wrong with you.February 15, 2018 3:35 pm at 3:35 pm #1470083
==Perhaps it’s time to close this thread. Schneubs has received answers and chizuk. We wouldn’t want things to degenerate into a squabble about dating and cause him to become jaded before he’s even started!==
no squabble, i found the comment so abusive i just left it aloneFebruary 15, 2018 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #1470141
❄️February 15, 2018 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #1470146
I know more than one of my chaveirim that did not learn a lick while they were in Yeshiva but when they went out to work and matured a bit their learning really took off. I specifically remember meeting a friend at the daf yomi siyum Hashas and was blown away when he told me that he is being mesayaim with them.
There is no mold or one way for everyone
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