Forum Replies Created
GAON: You’re welcome.
So what your saying that if the ac had a built in timer (which are available on the market) then reb moshe would be ok with it just like a built in t-stat on shsbbos
No, I don’t think a timer being built into the appliance would make it muttar according to R’ Moshe. If you programmed a built in timer to turn on the a/c at 11pm Friday night, for example, the a/c’s operation is beginning at 11pm.
If, however, you turn on the a/c before Shabbos, and the compressor happens to cycle on at 11pm, that is considered a result of what you did on erev Shabbos.February 21, 2018 9:02 am at 9:02 am in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1473494
How could they price out a public school, short of paying people to attend?
Presumably, some parents would pay some money towards a yeshiva education, the issue being presented is that it’s just too much.
Anyhow, I should have written “non yeshivas” to include private schools, instead of writing “public schools”.
A thermostat can be triggered by your actions.
That should not make a difference here.
No, the difference is as stated above, a thermostat is part of the normal function of the appliance, which was turned on before Shabbos. A timer is the appliance being turned on on Shabbos.
I didn’t speak of any noise.
“The sound of an air conditioner going on is not anymore the sound of Melacha.”
Where did Rav Moshe ever mention avsha milsa? He mentioned zilusa d’Shabbos, not avsha milsa.
And yes, the normal cycling on and off, for example, of a compressor, is a keili left on, but a timer is not. Rav Moshe clearly addresses that a timer is not an appliance left on – “שאין להחשיבו למעשיו עכשיו בערב שבת”.
News? Who cares if it’s news? It got you to read it. That’s why it was posted.
Did you read the article?
Well, that’s why they posted it.February 20, 2018 10:19 pm at 10:19 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1473357
The MO schools are also competing with public schools for education , meaning they have to offer classes like AP and extra curricular activies than more charedi dont, otherwise some parents wont send their kids there
So the irony is, that the MO schools are pricing out some public school kids so that they can compete for public school kids.February 20, 2018 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1473348
Because to some people, not having their kids negatively influenced by kids whose parents could easily send them to public school is not negotiable.February 20, 2018 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1473332
In the more yeshivish communities, how many families with more kids and a lower income than most of these families aren’t in yeshiva? Close to zero. The bottom line is if there’s a will, there’s a way. A Jewish education should not be negotiable.February 20, 2018 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1473331
If tuition is $40K per year (as it is in some schools
It’s considerably less in others, so why is the only other option to send to public school and sacrifice the children’s Jewish future?February 20, 2018 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1473330
In the out of town communities where there is just 1 MO day school in a hundred mile radius, the tuition is truly impossible for some (20K+ for kindergarten).
In town MO schools are also outrageously expensive. I don’t know that it’s an OOT issue.
For a typical frum family, sending children to yeshivos is a priority, and everything else – where to live, work etc. works around that.
would you mind elaborating?
Read Rav Moshe’s teshuvah. He doesn’t actually talk about air conditioners at all, and doesn’t mention noise at all.
So to start talking about how air conditioners changed, or the sound of an air conditioner, completely misses the point.February 20, 2018 11:51 am at 11:51 am in reply to: @Chabad Shluchah Please Explain Why Davening To/Betten a Rebbe is Okay #1472743
DY:So from now on, whenever I have a halachic shailah, I will flip to a random page in the Igros Moshe and follow whatever it says…
Adding a bit to “whattosay’s” excellent post, there seems to also be a “my Rebbe is better than your Rebbe” influence in our dialogue that can only prevent proper dialogue and understanding.
I suggest we continue with the topic of selecting Igros without considering which Rebbe to consult. That is, is it possible for any deceased soul to interact with the world in such a way as to influence a particular living persons actions?
You seem to have misunderstood the point of that post (thread). It was not to say how my Rebbe is greater than your Rebbe. It was to illustrate the absolute folly of the idea of “consulting the Igros” by random selection.
If anyone would actually, literally, suggest consulting the Igros Moshe that way, they would be immediately referred to a psychologist (perhaps a psychiatrist).
If my rabbi would defend such a course of action, I would immediately look for a new rabbi.
Are u saying this as accepted in halachach or is this your personal sevara?
The generally accepted halachah is to permit Shabbos clocks; I am saying what I think is a simple distinction which even R’ Moshe, who assers Shabbos clocks, would agree with.
It’s clear that R’ Moshe didn’t have a problem with having a refrigerator on on Shabbos. If the normal cycling on and off of an appliance were the same as a timer, he would not have allowed it, as the compressor cycles on and off.
You can call it my sevara if you wish, but I think it’s a simple and clear distinction, and not really a chiddush.
Chopped liver is oneg Shabbos, not zilzul Shabbos.
Why is a timer different then a thermostat in a fridge,oven,ac,heating, hot plate, crock pot. Both dont have thier own minds yet we are only concerned with only a timer, even though both are going off and on at different intervals.
Good question, but I think the appliances cycling on and off is considered part of the running of the appliance, which started before Shabbos, but when a timer activates, it’s viewed as the appliance being turned on on Shabbos.
Why are people mixng up zilzu shabbos with chillul shabbos d’orysa?
Who? Where?February 19, 2018 5:39 pm at 5:39 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1472334
DaasYochid, about the sad story, yes. About other, unrelated things I was aware of previously, no.
So you assumed that he already knew?February 19, 2018 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1471936
Maybe if day school tuition was not so high it would be less.
Part of what’s sad is that people put their personal comforts ahead of their children’s Jewish education and future.
You’re right, though, and that’s where organizations such as Oorah come in.February 19, 2018 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm in reply to: Is the fact that 40% of the public school is Jewish any less of a tragedy #1471934
Why are you suddenly sad about this now, after the shooting?
Does reading a sad story make you sad?
Why contact YWN if one has been a victim in a similar procedure/circumstance?
Who would you rather call, the FBI? They’re worthless!
Also, it’s not true that there’s no such thing as an assault rifle. For example, the M4 is an assault rifle.
Seriously. Tzei u’limad.
Maybe they took his kidney
Who cares what they’re called? Seriously.
the benefits, both in terms of safety…
What safety benefits? If you don’t believe people die at the exact moment they were supposed to, regardless of whether a gun could have been a defense, then nothing anyone says will help you…
If you don’t want to ask your LOR, you are also being disingenuous.
In case you want to know what daas Torah says about gun control, I found this in a Hamodia article:
In the sefer Masores Moshe, Hagaon Harav Moshe Feinstein, zt”l, is said to have wondered at the fact that there occurred so many acts of murder. He asked with astonishment, “How is it that they allow people to buy pistols in America, something that probably no other country would permit? Most murders are done with them, not with knife-stabbing! It’s only the wickedness of some wealthy people that doesn’t allow the government to ban them.”
Well, you should.
wishing the murder of Jews
Wanting a political entity to be dismantled is not the same as wanting Jews dead. Once again, you conflate issues.
MOST Yidden abhor this group?
I’m not sure which group you’re referring to. If you’re referring to the Holocaust denier hugging NK, then I would say that most Yidden abhor their actions. If you’re referring to those who protest the State of Israel, then I would agree that many disagree with their methods (myself included).
You are the one who seems to be admitting to abhorring other Yidden – don’t drag others into it, and don’t blame me for turning the wheel on you, when you did it to yourself.February 18, 2018 11:41 am at 11:41 am in reply to: @Chabad Shluchah Please Explain Why Davening To/Betten a Rebbe is Okay #1471288
SHY, Re, “asking Igros” I had a post about it on a previous thread, if someone can find it, thanks. In any case, many Lubavitchers are vehemently against it, and it has no source in anything the Rebbe said, and aderabe.
I believe it’s the post CS just linked to.February 18, 2018 11:41 am at 11:41 am in reply to: @Chabad Shluchah Please Explain Why Davening To/Betten a Rebbe is Okay #1471286
Once again, you have failed to answer why the Rebbe would need to answer how it’s okay to ask a Rebbe for brachos (and no, he wasn’t merely explaining the reason it works).
You also again fail to explain how Hashem being revealed through a tzaddik (all the sources which you brought say nothing more) is “atzmus umehus araingshtelt in a guf” which connotes much more.
Also, we are no longer in the Rebbe’s generation. Chabad’s failure to choose a new leader is just that – a failure – and doesn’t force the Ribon Shel Olam to keep the Rebbe alive (and again, the fact that there are sources to refer to a tzaddik who was niftar as alive in some sense does not begin to explain the way you treat the Rebbe.
Who’s foul mouthed? Who’s a hater?
Infringing on the rights of 300 million people is not something to be taken lightly, yes, even to save lives as harsh as that may sound.
Yes, that is harsh.
Why not restrict cars from being capable of travelling more than 25mph everywhere at all times? Thousands die every year in car accidents.
Comparing the benefits of high speed travel to the benefits of allowing almost anyone to buy guns is just ludicrous.
But maybe a clue can found in the words of gedolei Yisroel , for example the rabbi of Gur and R’ Sonnenfeld who said , that if more frum people who have made Aliya , it would have looked different. Hashem had His plan, and the ultra extremists tried to thwart it….
Actually, R’ Sonnenfeld would more likely have said (the Brisker Rav did say it) that moshiach would have come had the atheist zionists not taken over.
You are again conflating Eretz Yisroel, and the mitzvah of yishuv (which the Gerrer Rebbe and R’ Sonnenfeld were in favor of), with a secular political entity.
You cannot legitimately complain about someone ch”v cursing Eretz Yisroel, when they in fact curse the secular political entity, and not the Holy Land.
I get the impression that by cooking where no action is involved it is permitted to use a shabbos clock but not by anything else besides putting on a light.
If you’re getting the impression that that’s what Rav Moshe is saying, you’re getting the wrong impression.
Reb Moshe compares cooking to the Nemukei Yosef different than anything else, why?
I don’t understand what you are asking.February 18, 2018 10:01 am at 10:01 am in reply to: @Chabad Shluchah Please Explain Why Davening To/Betten a Rebbe is Okay #1471171
What makes you think you are qualified to determine who he was by reading his writings?
When you can distinguish between Eretz Yisroel and, l’havdil, the State of Israel, we can discuss.
Firstly, you are the one who started (and continue) with the ad hominum attacks.
The way the pro gun lobby is being intellectually dishonest is that they don’t compare countriess with a similar socioeconomic situation as the U.S., but fewer guns, because doing so would yoeli the uncomfortable fact that they don’t have the kind of gun massacres we have here.
You can cloud the situation all you want by nitpicking on the term “assault rifle” and pointing to a ban on a specific gun as being effective, but that doesn’t alter the overall picture that we too easily allow people to obtain guns, whichever specific models or categories you can name, that are used to kill people.
When you put a pot of food on the fire before Shabbos, the cooking process begins before Shabbos, and we view the rest as taking place on its own.
Rav Moshe views setting it up on a timer not as if the process already, but as setting it up so that the process will begin on Shabbos.
If you tell a non Jew before Shabbos that you want him to do melacha on Shabbos, unless you later tell him not to, the melacha will be done, yet we don’t view it as if you set the process in motion before Shabbos, we view it as being started on Shabbos.
Rav Moshe considers a timer to be in the same category.
If someone disagrees with you, ZionGate, it must be hatred.
The use of a timer by definition means you don’t need to do an action on Shabbos. The timer does it for you, just as in amira l’akum, the non Jew does it for you.
DaasYochid, please explain isn’t A/C similar to cooking that once it is turned no action is necessary?
Yes, that’s why I think the same way Rav Moshe assered having food cook on a timer (that’s the case in the teshuvah), he would asser a/c.
There were many mass casualty incidents without the use of guns. 9-11, Oklahoma City, the tractor attacks in E”Y, the truck ramming attacks, particularly the one in Nice that killed 86 people. Banning guns is an emotional reaction. The right reaction is to determine the root cause of why these attacks are perpetuated, not to ban every possible means of attack.
It’s not an emotional reaction to ban one particularly efficient method of mass killing. It is folly to not try to save some lives because you can’t save all.
Do you really believe that if Nikolas Cruz wasn’t able to buy a gun, he would have rammed a truck into the school?
I’m all for determining “the root cause of why these attacks are perpetuated” (hint- some people are evil), but not to preclude taking common sense measures to prevent some of these events.
If we determine the root cause of why these attacks are perpetuated, and somehow manage to eradicate the desire some people have to commit these heinous crimes, then we’ll talk about allowing people to indiscriminately own AR-15s and the like. Until then, why give them the weapon which makes it easier and more likely to kill?
Who said anything about pedestrians?
Anyhow, JJ2020 makes a valid point that if you don’t define “involvement”, your statistic doesn’t mean much.
Would you look at the Igros in Cheilek ח?
I asked Rav Moshe that, and he said it’s fine.
Today there is no way to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Anyone can make a gun using the Internet. There have even been cases of soldiers stealing guns from their bases and selling them to dealers.
It’s true that a law passed tomorrow will not suddenly eliminate all guns, but if better regulations were enacted and enforced, there would be fewer guns around and fewer guns deaths.
Tell me, living in Israel, would you employ your reasoning to allow guns to be sold to Arabs?
If you really believe in intellectual honesty, you’ll acknowledge that the high rate of gun violence in the U.S. is connected to the gun culture, and loose regulations.
Also, if you believed in intellectual honesty, you wouldn’t accuse me of accusing pro gun people of not caring if children die.
I think children die as a result of the gun culture and ease of obtaining them, but your not seeing that is due to your love of guns and intellectual dishonesty, not because you actually want to see kids die.
Quoting Rabbi Miller about the internet today is as relevant as quoting Reb Moshe on the use of timers.
You turned out to be wrong about timers; do you still maintain your position regarding internet? (Although I think Rav Miller didn’t actually say this, it’s just a masterful job of imitating his style by DaMoshe.)
There are over 300 million guns in this country, most of them semi-auto, so banning them is not possible, nor will anyone listen.
Yeah, too hard to ban guns, let’s keep letting children be killed in school (and in homes, in the street….).
@daasyochid So is every type of gun, knives, cars, hands (which killed more than double the people in 2016, which was easy to find data for, killed using an AR-15), blunt objects (also killed more people than murders using an AR-15)
Yeah, silly Nikolas Cruz, he should have just used his hands instead of an AR-15.