Definitely not a stupid question. Reb Yaacov Emden discusses this question towards the beginning of Hilchos Teffilin in Mor Uktziah.

youdontsay,
Obviously I agree nothing would beat derech emunah, but have you read the intro to daas notah. The whole point of the work was to clarify all the misquotes of Reb Chaim, and his son went to his father many times to clarify his position. I think it would be the one sefer that is pretty reliable of all the books quoting Reb Chaim. But maybe I’m just being Naive.

If the question asked was regarding a phone without a filter, It is a very fair question that I wonder a lot myself. Forget Psak Halacha. I know personally I would stumble a lot (and somewhat have) It is a very disturbing and honest question. Yet the guy next to me who speaks constant lashon harah, davens in twenty minutes and rarely makes it to the beis medrash, has more self control than me. I find it all very confusing.

Few in europe said “o” they either said oy ei or ow

To me the Rayah is a good proof though I think it was mentioned earlier. Reb Shlomo Miller in the second Teshuva on the topic though mentions a similar proof regarding bentching if one only know the first ????. He then says that it doesn’t prove anything though I don’t really understand the reason he writes.

I’m going to stop now my end as I relooked at the ????? of Rabbi Miller and also just saw the second one he wrote for the first time. He addresses these issues and also admits there are many ?????? not like Reb Chaim, he just says not too dismiss it to lightly. The real place to look at this topic in length is the ????? quoted there of the ??? ???? ?????.<http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37145&st=&pgnum=160&hilite=&gt;

I don’t understand the point made about ??? ????. You might not gain from taking a ??? ?????. But you are still obligated to take a ???? ????? so you are still im a ??? of ????

I don’t understand your proof regarding the Gemara Rosh Hoshanah. you are obligated in the mitzavah and the possibility of fulfilling it trumps the certain Deraban. I pretty sure the fact there is a ????? there is irrelevant to your proof. You understand that according to Reb Chaim EVEN WITHOUT the ????? you would not have to go to the place since there is no ??? ??????? ?????? there. This as I understand it has nothing to with Reb Chaim. If i have ??? if there is a Esrog in a certain place I need to go find out since I might fulfill my mitzvah 100 percent. Please tell me how you are definitely ending up in a never ending circle like I mentioned earlier.

I also can’t understand why I have now twice agreed this probably is not normative halacha and you keep telling me that. I am trying to discuss the Reb Chaim. That’s all. Relax and please try to explain your proof from the Gemara so i can appreciate what you are saying.

I didn’t mean to get so personal. Sorry. I’ve just seen the Ran Thrown around so many times it was frustrating. Most Reb Chaims are a Mesorah and this one is no different. Any of the Brisker Mishpacha knows it. I can’t help if it has gotten misquoted.

Reb Chaim, as i understand it, is saying that an action that will leave you in the exact place you started is useless and can’t require you to do anything. For example, if its Succos and I have only a fruit that is a ??? ?????, taking it will be of little help. Before I take the fruit I am ???? to take an ????? and after I take the fruit, since there is a ??? ??????? ?????? I’m still obligated to take the fruit. What did I accomplish in taking the fruit and you enter in to a circular world. In the case of Rosh Hashanah In the end of the day you will know if you accomplished the Mitzvah and end the circle. It makes a lot of sence .

With that said I do agree by Tefillin this is certainly not the case.

Also you are confusing two points. There are those that ague one MUST wear ????? because of ??? ???????? ??????. Rabbi Miller is just saying according to Reb Chaim you don’t have to. However all this does is explain why one is Not ???? to wear ?????, there still might be what to gain. If its my only esrog, while not ???? to take it, I still might be ???? the ???? ( I don’t honestly believe that any one that was stranded on a desert Island with only a ??? ????? wouldn’t take it.) And anyways many think there is not much of a ??? as you point out.

“The gemara in Rosh Hashana is poshut telling us in the maskana of the gemara that safek deoraysa will be mechayev you to go somewhere which is a safek if you will be mekayem a mitzvah, even at teh cost of a vadai drabanan. And see the way the Mishna berura explains it in siman 595. About the ran, there is a lot to sasy about Rabbi Miller’s tayneh, but being that all the other mareh mekomos are clearly applicable I will not elaborate”.

I saw a discussion from 3 months ago about the Reb Chaim that a safek mitzvah is not ????.

This has always been my prime example what happens when not lomdanim get involved with PSAK. They end up embarrassing themselves. Ive seen this Ran etc quoted so often and it is a total error. Nothing to discuss. The briskers have a Mesora that if the fulfilling of a Mitzah one will still remain in a Matzav of Chiyuv it is useless. Therfor if one performs a Mitzvah in a way that he will still have to do it again because of ??? ??????? ?????? then he accomplished nothing. So if you have a ???? that was ??? ???, there is no point in taking it because ??? ??????? will tell you do it again. However if you are ????? if you are ???? in a ???? or could possibly fulfill it for sure (the case of ??? ????) then of course you have to do it (The radziner quotes someone that say you would be ???? but this in NOT the Reb Chaim) The Ran is talking about Bein Hashmeashos which is a ??? whether you are ???? and by taking it you will fulfill that requirement nothing else to do, no different from a tumtum who is ???? I hate to say it, but anyone quoting the Ran either totally missed Reb Chaim or is completely embarrassing himself.

I don’t want anyone thinking I’m for learning during Chazoret Hashatz. A more appropriate title for this thread is what to do about people that don’t pay attention during chazoras hashatz (no matter what type of activity they are engaged in spacing out, learning or texting etc.) One little piece of advice I can give is that while many find davening from the sefer that brakes up shmonei esrei line by line to cumbersome to use it to follow chozaras hashatz

This is so ridiculous SOOO many people are against learning and yet I go to any and every shul and 99.999999999999999999999999% of the people are spaced out. Give me a break, like you really care that people are not listening.

How many people pick up sefer thinking this is a mitzvah. People are interested in what seforim. SHOW ME A SINGLE PERSON THAT PICKS UP A SEFER DURING CHOZARAS HASHATZ That thinks he is doing a mitzavah

Oh by the way Reb chaim kanievski paskens that technically if one misses the beginning of chozres Hashatz there is no inyan to listen to the rest. AND saying Amein w/o kevanah is a real averia is for sure worse then learning and not saying amein at all.