Forum Replies Created
funnybone: Please elaborate on this thought of yours that “There are times, my shisduch included, that no one who have thought of it and only a pro puts it together.” Using yourself as an example, why do you assume a non-professional shadchan would never have thought of it?January 23, 2019 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm in reply to: The differences between Litvish/Yeshivish marriages and Chasidish marriages #1667468
Neville ChaimBerlin: Please elucidate what your definition of romance is when you state some say Chasidishe marriages have none of it (an assertion that you dispute.)January 23, 2019 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm in reply to: The differences between Litvish/Yeshivish marriages and Chasidish marriages #1667384
gadol: Do you think Bucharian Jews conduct martial life the same way Modern Orthodox Jews do?
Of course there are differences. Some are rather very significant differences, even when speaking very generally.
Not every secret causes a shidduch to fall into the halachic category of mekach taos. In fact, most don’t.
Bananas are a new world food.
Shopping613: For most of those things you can’t know even with (and after) the date. You can only really find out after the chasuna.January 23, 2019 2:42 pm at 2:42 pm in reply to: The differences between Litvish/Yeshivish marriages and Chasidish marriages #1667296
1. Both. But Litvish better, perhaps. My definition of their expectations is to build a bayis ne’emen b’yisroel, with all that details. A bit vague, no doubt, which is why I’m asking you for your definition of it and description of the differences between them.
2. From the Yeshivish side.
3. I just read it. I think it could be applied to long term Litvish and Chasidish marriages. I also think it could be applied to long term secular and Catholic marriages.January 23, 2019 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm in reply to: The differences between Litvish/Yeshivish marriages and Chasidish marriages #1667175
“Maybe their expectations of marriage are more similar to Chasidim than to the American Litvish/Yeshivish world”
ubiq: Can you please define what each of their expectations of marriage is and how they differ from each other?January 23, 2019 12:49 pm at 12:49 pm in reply to: The differences between Litvish/Yeshivish marriages and Chasidish marriages #1667174
TLIK: How, then, do you explain the reason why Chasidim and the Litvish/Yeshivish have a vastly different dating/engagement system from each other?
i.e. beshows/one-two meetings in home/engaged with little contact till the wedding versus dating one on one 8-10 times/restaurants and outside venues/much more contact, etc.January 23, 2019 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm in reply to: The differences between Litvish/Yeshivish marriages and Chasidish marriages #1667135
Neville, you believe that very Chasidishe marriages (not just Rebbishe marriages — as well as very Yeshivish marriages in EY) by and large have notable romance, beyond what any long term marriage has? Why do you think some say otherwise?
Go to Rav Chaim for a brocho.
If it does then Shmiras Einayim unquestionably takes precedence.
I would venture to say that most (likely the vast majority) of Chareidi marriages occur from shidduchim that were not redt by a professional shadchan.
You don’t become a lammud vovnik overnight. As your tzidkus grows, you grow into a bigger tzadik. When a lammud vovnik is niftar another tzadik reaches the madreiga of becoming a lammud vovnik. And the new lammud vovnik wasn’t a well known tzadik in the first place.
Any other secrets you need answers to?
What’s this whole todo with shadchanim, shadchanim, shadchanim. Everyone can get married without a professional shadchan. Family, friends, friends of friends, rabbonim, schoolmates, shul mates, acquaintances, neighbors and colleagues network and redt shidduchim. You don’t need a professional shadchan for that.
jm22, is everything okay?
There are only 36 of them and their identities are a secret.
She’s probably preparing the family meal, which is her primary duty. So she’s doing the right thing. Compliment her.
Oftentimes they’ll dress tzniusdik on the date even though at other times they’ll sometimes go out non-tzniusdik.
I got married! The shidduch crisis is over
Lemme guess… you became akuperma’s wife?!
DovidBT: Shmiras Einayim is a law not just a fence. (Even had it been a fence, fences are binding not optional.)
RY23, attending a gym that has both genders utilizing it at the same time is prohibited by Jewish law.
Ubiq: “Its bad when all the research is separated from actually getting married”
Why/how is that bad?
“To paraphrase, Differetn expectations for where dating is supposed to lead .”
I asked you how if the Litvish change their system to be more like the Modern Orthodox, as you proposed that the Litvish allow boys and girls to directly hookup at weddings and other events. How’s “different expectations” explain why the Litvish should partially switch to the MO model?
What’s this business about “would feel more comfortable in an all-male gym”? Going to a non-all male gym is forbidden by Jewish law.
DY: Can you explain in more detail how a typical American Litvish marriage differs so much from a typical American Chasidish marriage?
Ubiq: What is “the bad part of chasidish dating” that you refer to? If it is that they research so much (far more than the Litvish) before seeing each other, how can you say it is bad if the system works well for them? In fact, they don’t have the shidduch crisis nearly to the extent as the Litvish have it.
And the MO do not have less if a shidduch crisis than the Litvish do (in fact you could argue they have it even worse), so how does your proposal that the Litvish adopt many aspects of the Modern Orthodox dating system, such as guys and gals hooking up at meals, weddings and events, going to help the Litvish when it isn’t helping the MO have a better marriage system than the Litvish? What leads you to believe such changes would be beneficial to the Litvish?
DY: Why would American Litvish style bochurim in terms of sholom bayis have it differently than American Chasidish bochurim in terms of sholom bayis, it they both followed the same system?January 21, 2019 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm in reply to: Freezer-Burnt: Most boys unprepared for dating or married life. #1665831
TLIK: Perhaps I overlooked your suggestion, but what, in detail, solution do you propose for the problem you describe?
Yeled is a not-for-profit?!
Me12345: 4″ could be part of the discussion, but I would suggest being more inclusive than just that narrow issue.
Mammele, both examples might be difficult, but doable. “Very difficult” can imply close to practically undoable, which is incorrect imo.
How is Yeled not paying for the property?
“I think cutting down the gap is a very difficult thing to do.”
It doesn’t appear to be very difficult to do for the Chasidim.
Amil: Any one of what you cite might be an example.
One man’s bad humor are another man’s parody.
Now the girls are in the freezer.
The rabbonim who advocate closing the age gap came to advocate that only after askonim brought it to their attention. Perhaps those same askonim ought to petition the rabbonim to more forcefully dissuade couples from getting engaged if there’s an age gap?
Takes2: Who says the kiddushin isn’t chal? As long as they were both aware of the situation prior to the kiddushin it is chal.
DY: Wouldn’t public criticism of the concept (not the people) by rabbonim be helpful in discouraging and reducing the incidences of age gap marriages, thereby greatly alleviating the crisis?January 21, 2019 10:44 am at 10:44 am in reply to: Freezer-Burnt: Most boys unprepared for dating or married life. #1665388
Naftush II: The only thing the freezer is designed and aimed for is to keep young gentlemen focused on their Limud Torah rather than taking away from that endeavor by their engaging in shidduch involvement. There’s no other “human engineering” intended regarding introducing guys and gals to each other, that you seem to be referring to.
DY: Should communities shun those who marry a spouse with a notable age gap, due to the societal crisis such action causes? Or if not shun the individuals, at least be publicly very critical of the concept of marriages with a notable (what “notable” is would have to be defined) age gap.
If not, why not?
funnybone, a shoita can’t give a Get, so suffice to say I think the divorce rate will be below average.January 20, 2019 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm in reply to: Letter from HaGaon HaRav Aharon Feldman Regarding the Machloke in Eretz Yisroel #1665126
Reb Toi, any rebuttal to Rav Feldman shlita?January 20, 2019 6:42 pm at 6:42 pm in reply to: Freezer-Burnt: Most boys unprepared for dating or married life. #1665069
The Chareidi world has one of the smallest divorce rates of any society.
ubiq: Your math is bad. I would otherwise explain it to you if not for the fact that it’s been explained extensively here for years, so saying it one more time is certainly going to fall on deaf non-understanding ears.
Do they have such things outta town?
Syag, plus everyone has a zivug, a bashert, from 40 days before birth. So it cannot be that there’s even one Yid ever who cannot get married. Correct?
Whoever agrees that the age gap is a significant cause of a disparity resulting in a larger number of girls in shidduchim than boys, resulting in a constant percentage of girls being unable to ever marry, must by definition agree that to mostly or at least partially correct that crisis the following two steps will significantly help, if not they’re being absolutely critical to fix the problem:
1. Boys getting married notably younger than the current trend.
2. Boys marrying girls their own age, rather than an average of being three years older than their wife.
It seems apparent than both these steps could be much better accomplished, if not perhaps the only way to implement them on a consistent basis in the future, is for far more parental involvement in choosing shidduchim’s timeline (age) and partner (spouse).January 20, 2019 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm in reply to: Freezer-Burnt: Most boys unprepared for dating or married life. #1664839
“not everyone that goes through Lakewood can adapt outside of Lakewood”
CA: What does that mean?
“Anyhow, I looked it up. Apparently, trying to close the gap by focusing on the older girls didn’t make much if a dent, because for the most part, the boys are still marrying the younger girls.”
DY: Where did you glean this information?