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	<title>Comments on: Op-Ed: Response To The NASI Project &#8211; By Rabbi Chananya Weissman</title>
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	<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html</link>
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		<title>By: WolfishMusings</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237953</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[WolfishMusings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2011 05:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237953</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To nishtdayngesheft (#6)

Thank you for providing a perfect example of an ad hominem argument.  Instead of focusing on and rebutting anything he has to say, you chose to attack him personally instead.

The Wolf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To nishtdayngesheft (#6)</p>
<p>Thank you for providing a perfect example of an ad hominem argument.  Instead of focusing on and rebutting anything he has to say, you chose to attack him personally instead.</p>
<p>The Wolf</p>
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		<title>By: Truehonesty</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Truehonesty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2011 22:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Tully Weiss (# 9):  Your comedy line is probably the hashkafa answer to Rabbi Weissman&#039;s question.  Why is HaShem not taking better care in the gender game and ensuring equal numbers of boys and girls?  Rabbi Weissman&#039;s answer is that there are equal numbers.  My feeling is that there are indeed a larger number of girls around - most parents looking for shidduchim for their (regular aged i.e. 18-20 year old) daughters will complain that they are not getting enough calls whilst the boys&#039; parents are inundated with suggestions.  I believe the answer hashkafically is that we are living in the ikvese demoshicha and when that great day arrives cherem deRabbeinu Gershom will become null and void, and people will marry several wives.  HaShem is preparing the groundwork....   Whilst this is not much comfort to the older single, I believe it to be true.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Tully Weiss (# 9):  Your comedy line is probably the hashkafa answer to Rabbi Weissman&#8217;s question.  Why is HaShem not taking better care in the gender game and ensuring equal numbers of boys and girls?  Rabbi Weissman&#8217;s answer is that there are equal numbers.  My feeling is that there are indeed a larger number of girls around &#8211; most parents looking for shidduchim for their (regular aged i.e. 18-20 year old) daughters will complain that they are not getting enough calls whilst the boys&#8217; parents are inundated with suggestions.  I believe the answer hashkafically is that we are living in the ikvese demoshicha and when that great day arrives cherem deRabbeinu Gershom will become null and void, and people will marry several wives.  HaShem is preparing the groundwork&#8230;.   Whilst this is not much comfort to the older single, I believe it to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: Baruch</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237920</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baruch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Nov 2011 20:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well written article, unfortunately the content leaves much...
A few quotes:
&quot;Furthermore, there is widespread belief that there is a problem with men dating women significantly their junior.  Our eyes and ears do not support this.  I ask readers to consider how many couples they know where the man is many years older than the woman.&quot;
&quot;I ask readers to consider the men they know in their families and communities, and compare them to the women.  Are the men really all just a bunch of pathetic slobs, while the women are valorous and refined in every way?&quot;
 &quot;As noted above, matchmaking as an institution is a 
colossal failure,..&quot;
   1: The author questions why there are no facts backing project nasi&#039;s claims, I&#039;m wondering where is the factual evidence in these three (and more) comments?
    2: For the record, the age gap was documented.  I myself saw a 15 page study presenting Yeshiva and Bais Yaakov enrollment figures from several cities over several years showing quite clearly the age gap issue. This was back in 2002, my understanding was that this was shown to Gedolim who after studying the presentation concurred that this was an issue, (not necessarily the whole issue). 
    3: The fact that in the non-Jewish world the age gap is wider would only be of consequence if the population growth matches the orthodox growth.  (I would be curious as to the Sefardic communities from 50+ years ago where the age gap was quite large along with a (probable) decent birth rate, if there was a shortage of men, and if not why?)

It seems to me that far from being an objective view of Project Nasi&#039;s idea based on facts and reason, the article involves a large amount of hearsay and not thought-through arguments.
(I have provided examples of each and I believe that there are far more examples). 
It seems that the author has issues with the age-old institution of shadchonim and has what he considers to be the alternative solution. Without commenting on the merits of either approach (his or any other),we should recognize that Shadchonim and the system will be with us for the foreseeable future. If that assumption is true, our changes are limited to working within the system.  All attacks on ideas and initiatives should come from the perspective that the idea will hurt the existing system.  Much of the article did not come from that perspective.
If one is attempting to change the entire system, it is somewhat unfair to &quot;pick on&quot; an initiative that is trying to work within the system, A different forum would be necessary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written article, unfortunately the content leaves much&#8230;<br />
A few quotes:<br />
&#8220;Furthermore, there is widespread belief that there is a problem with men dating women significantly their junior.  Our eyes and ears do not support this.  I ask readers to consider how many couples they know where the man is many years older than the woman.&#8221;<br />
&#8220;I ask readers to consider the men they know in their families and communities, and compare them to the women.  Are the men really all just a bunch of pathetic slobs, while the women are valorous and refined in every way?&#8221;<br />
 &#8220;As noted above, matchmaking as an institution is a<br />
colossal failure,..&#8221;<br />
   1: The author questions why there are no facts backing project nasi&#8217;s claims, I&#8217;m wondering where is the factual evidence in these three (and more) comments?<br />
    2: For the record, the age gap was documented.  I myself saw a 15 page study presenting Yeshiva and Bais Yaakov enrollment figures from several cities over several years showing quite clearly the age gap issue. This was back in 2002, my understanding was that this was shown to Gedolim who after studying the presentation concurred that this was an issue, (not necessarily the whole issue).<br />
    3: The fact that in the non-Jewish world the age gap is wider would only be of consequence if the population growth matches the orthodox growth.  (I would be curious as to the Sefardic communities from 50+ years ago where the age gap was quite large along with a (probable) decent birth rate, if there was a shortage of men, and if not why?)</p>
<p>It seems to me that far from being an objective view of Project Nasi&#8217;s idea based on facts and reason, the article involves a large amount of hearsay and not thought-through arguments.<br />
(I have provided examples of each and I believe that there are far more examples).<br />
It seems that the author has issues with the age-old institution of shadchonim and has what he considers to be the alternative solution. Without commenting on the merits of either approach (his or any other),we should recognize that Shadchonim and the system will be with us for the foreseeable future. If that assumption is true, our changes are limited to working within the system.  All attacks on ideas and initiatives should come from the perspective that the idea will hurt the existing system.  Much of the article did not come from that perspective.<br />
If one is attempting to change the entire system, it is somewhat unfair to &#8220;pick on&#8221; an initiative that is trying to work within the system, A different forum would be necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: GeshmakMan</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GeshmakMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 21:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#6 - no need to stoop down to trashing him personally. He at least means well and tries to help people (in his circles and to those who accept his view/help).

Doesn&#039;t give you a Heter to trash him, and future shidduch prospects for him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6 &#8211; no need to stoop down to trashing him personally. He at least means well and tries to help people (in his circles and to those who accept his view/help).</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t give you a Heter to trash him, and future shidduch prospects for him.</p>
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		<title>By: be good</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237909</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[be good]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 20:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article- well said.

rebmoish: What is your point? that the author does not adhere to what you consider &#039;yeshivish rules of dating&#039;?
I hate to break it to you, but many so called &#039;yeshivish&#039; people actually dated the way R&#039;Weissman described (ie not in what you would call a &#039;yeshivish&#039; way...)
Alot of these &#039;yeshivish rules of dating&#039; have very little basis in the torah... so I&#039;m not quite sure what you&#039;re trying to say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article- well said.</p>
<p>rebmoish: What is your point? that the author does not adhere to what you consider &#8216;yeshivish rules of dating&#8217;?<br />
I hate to break it to you, but many so called &#8216;yeshivish&#8217; people actually dated the way R&#8217;Weissman described (ie not in what you would call a &#8216;yeshivish&#8217; way&#8230;)<br />
Alot of these &#8216;yeshivish rules of dating&#8217; have very little basis in the torah&#8230; so I&#8217;m not quite sure what you&#8217;re trying to say.</p>
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		<title>By: hello99</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237906</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hello99]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237906</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I strongly oppose the NASI initiative, but this is much worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I strongly oppose the NASI initiative, but this is much worse.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Raphael Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237904</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raphael Kaufman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[NASI isn&#039;t exactly &quot;addressing&quot; the needs of those with yeshiva hashkofos. A more accurate description would be &quot;preying upon&quot; those with yeshiva hashkofos.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NASI isn&#8217;t exactly &#8220;addressing&#8221; the needs of those with yeshiva hashkofos. A more accurate description would be &#8220;preying upon&#8221; those with yeshiva hashkofos.</p>
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		<title>By: Tully Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tully Weiss]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I started writing a respons to nasi on my own. when i read this response and realized that it was exponentially better than mine i saw no reason to post mine. you more than took the words out of my mouth. i have been telling people for years that the math simply does not make sense.
start with adam and chavah (if we make assumptions, assume every generation has 50/50 boys and girls) 

i post with my name too.

can i add a comedic line?
To Nasi...maybe years ago it wasnt a problem because men had more than one wife!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I started writing a respons to nasi on my own. when i read this response and realized that it was exponentially better than mine i saw no reason to post mine. you more than took the words out of my mouth. i have been telling people for years that the math simply does not make sense.<br />
start with adam and chavah (if we make assumptions, assume every generation has 50/50 boys and girls) </p>
<p>i post with my name too.</p>
<p>can i add a comedic line?<br />
To Nasi&#8230;maybe years ago it wasnt a problem because men had more than one wife!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: GeshmakMan</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237897</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GeshmakMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is NO right or wrong in these cases. Rabbi Weissman has an opinion which he is entitled to. I happen to love his work and his writings. That being said, there is no perfect system in any circle/religion. 

It is also silly for Rabbi Weissman or for anyone to comment on NASI. If you think it is a scam, insulting, not fair, or any of the above, then do not sign up and enter it. These blogs and comments from &quot;experts&quot; just keep NASI in the news, ignore it and it will fade away.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is NO right or wrong in these cases. Rabbi Weissman has an opinion which he is entitled to. I happen to love his work and his writings. That being said, there is no perfect system in any circle/religion. </p>
<p>It is also silly for Rabbi Weissman or for anyone to comment on NASI. If you think it is a scam, insulting, not fair, or any of the above, then do not sign up and enter it. These blogs and comments from &#8220;experts&#8221; just keep NASI in the news, ignore it and it will fade away.</p>
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		<title>By: HaKatan</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/editorial/107938/op-ed-response-to-the-nasi-project-by-rabbi-chananya-weissman.html#comment-237892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HaKatan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=107938#comment-237892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Leaving ETM out of the picture, which I have not looked into and I do not wish to comment on, I enjoyed his analysis, and I do think the &quot;age gap&quot; is a problem. 

There is no reason a typical 21 year old guy should be set up with a typical 24 year old girl; exceptions aside, the difference in emotional maturity will not make life easier for them, though it is likely doable with work just like most any marriage. But supposedly resolving the alleged &quot;age gap&quot; issue does not excuse creating hardship for everybody else.

Regarding the age gap, I agree with Rabbi Weissman and I also did not like NASI&#039;s comment about how &quot;we created the problem&quot;, and that we have to fix it. No, we didn&#039;t create the problem and, as Rabbi Weissman wrote, the only problem is perceptual, not factual. 

I do happen to know more a few more single older girls than guys. But maybe if girls weren&#039;t responsible for &quot;support&quot;, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per year then more girls would be able to get married. That, perhaps, is a problem that someone caused, and that requirement was certainly not passed down from Har Sinai.

There is no reason a 24 year-old girl can&#039;t get married to a 27-year old guy, and there are good and normal 27 year old guys out there who are still looking but are, unfortunately, not yet married. If you consider that it can take up months to date only one girl if it goes reasonably well, then all it takes is 5-10 failed attempts, with breaks in between, and that 23 year old guy is now 25 or older. Same for a girl starting at 20, only she would be 22 or older after the same process.

But the point is that if the same number of guys start at one age and the same number of girls start at a different age, odds are that there should be an equal number of boys and girls at the end of any given period in time. So the &quot;age gap&quot; is NOT the source of the problem of today&#039;s 26+ year old not-yet married girls.

If there is any &quot;social engineering to be done&quot; based on the alleged numbers, then perhaps it is, barring individual unique circumstances, to keep that age gap consistent even beyond 25-22. 

So if you usually set up 22 year old boys with 19 year old girls, then when you set up a 26 year old boy, don&#039;t set him up with a 21 year old girl, as by doing so you have just cut out the 22-23 year olds, leaving them to eventually become the 26 year old not-yet-marrieds.

While I disagree with free-mixing of the genders, scare tactics and manipulations based on unscientific numbers are not the answer either, as above-board and well-intentioned as people may be in doing so.

Rather, ending the &quot;support&quot; requirement and keeping the age gap consistent beyond the first few years, would probably go much further in solving this &quot;crisis&quot; than either throwing massive sums of money at people or free-mixing of the genders would do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leaving ETM out of the picture, which I have not looked into and I do not wish to comment on, I enjoyed his analysis, and I do think the &#8220;age gap&#8221; is a problem. </p>
<p>There is no reason a typical 21 year old guy should be set up with a typical 24 year old girl; exceptions aside, the difference in emotional maturity will not make life easier for them, though it is likely doable with work just like most any marriage. But supposedly resolving the alleged &#8220;age gap&#8221; issue does not excuse creating hardship for everybody else.</p>
<p>Regarding the age gap, I agree with Rabbi Weissman and I also did not like NASI&#8217;s comment about how &#8220;we created the problem&#8221;, and that we have to fix it. No, we didn&#8217;t create the problem and, as Rabbi Weissman wrote, the only problem is perceptual, not factual. </p>
<p>I do happen to know more a few more single older girls than guys. But maybe if girls weren&#8217;t responsible for &#8220;support&#8221;, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per year then more girls would be able to get married. That, perhaps, is a problem that someone caused, and that requirement was certainly not passed down from Har Sinai.</p>
<p>There is no reason a 24 year-old girl can&#8217;t get married to a 27-year old guy, and there are good and normal 27 year old guys out there who are still looking but are, unfortunately, not yet married. If you consider that it can take up months to date only one girl if it goes reasonably well, then all it takes is 5-10 failed attempts, with breaks in between, and that 23 year old guy is now 25 or older. Same for a girl starting at 20, only she would be 22 or older after the same process.</p>
<p>But the point is that if the same number of guys start at one age and the same number of girls start at a different age, odds are that there should be an equal number of boys and girls at the end of any given period in time. So the &#8220;age gap&#8221; is NOT the source of the problem of today&#8217;s 26+ year old not-yet married girls.</p>
<p>If there is any &#8220;social engineering to be done&#8221; based on the alleged numbers, then perhaps it is, barring individual unique circumstances, to keep that age gap consistent even beyond 25-22. </p>
<p>So if you usually set up 22 year old boys with 19 year old girls, then when you set up a 26 year old boy, don&#8217;t set him up with a 21 year old girl, as by doing so you have just cut out the 22-23 year olds, leaving them to eventually become the 26 year old not-yet-marrieds.</p>
<p>While I disagree with free-mixing of the genders, scare tactics and manipulations based on unscientific numbers are not the answer either, as above-board and well-intentioned as people may be in doing so.</p>
<p>Rather, ending the &#8220;support&#8221; requirement and keeping the age gap consistent beyond the first few years, would probably go much further in solving this &#8220;crisis&#8221; than either throwing massive sums of money at people or free-mixing of the genders would do.</p>
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