Comments on: Op-Ed: Beit Shemesh Condemnation – The 99.9 Percent Speak

By: emunah613

emunah613 — Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:28:14 +0000

Reporters are usually around to report-with or without invitations. Your points are not accurate. One can not enforce a dress code on any public street. If you are part of a city that gets municipal funding-then any city resident can walk on that street-it is not a private gated community. (In the Kiryah there are chiloni cleaning ladies wearing pants that work in frum homes there. There are also quite a few goyishe Filipinos dressed non tzniusdik that work there). Your point is clearly defending the charedim. We all get it. You did not mention all the charedim that drove out the chilonim living in RBS. There were all kinds of not Torah-dik harrassment that caused many of them to leave and this was before the sikrikim even arrived on the scene. There is plenty of dirt on both sides of the fence here and charedim as well as others involved have not been behaving in any way that could constitute Torah. Please also tell of all of the religious harrassment that was given to mikveh goers by the chareidim-women who were actually GOING to mikveh for a holy purpose-who suffered humiliation and harrassment by charedim. There is a lot of WELL DESERVED animosity towards the holier than thou charedim-which is agreeably not all inclusive of all charedim. The charedim are doing a fabulous job blackening their own name. Ask any beis din, there are charedi divorces everyday, RL. Ask all the at risk programs for teens, from which types of homes are these kids going off the derech? Shidduch crisis does not exist? Hsve you been looking around lately and noticed so many unmarried charedi singles? I have a suggestion for you-get real. Talk to some chilonim-they have only words of praise for ZAKA, Hatzoloh, Yad Ezra, Breslov, Chabad. Who are they angry at? People who call themselves charedim and act as if they are superior and holier than everyone else and all acts are justified in the name of Torah and Kedusha.

By: keepsmiling

keepsmiling — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:52:17 +0000

Rabosai!!
We must NOT get carried away by all the ‘bloff’ of the media and MUST seek the truth and focus on the sad but TRUE reality.
Firstly, As a long time resident of Beit Shemesh, and I am not at all connected to any ‘extremest’ or ‘action seekers’, and infact have not participated in ANY ‘hafganot’ in all my time here, I would like to state VERY clearly; This entire campaign against ‘gender segregation’ has absolutely nothing to do with the charedi public of BS or any other part of EY, it is entirely a ‘political propoganda gimic’ to gain some popularity amongst the public!!!
Secondly, there is a general sense of fear and trepidation amongst all secular Jews (and yes, even dati/leumi Jews)here in EY, that they are ‘petrified’ from the rapid natural growth of the charedi sector, the census give another decade or so that the population in EY will be majority charedi(B”H and K”Y), The amazing success of the ‘teshuva movement’ causing many secular Jews to join the Torah way of life and naturally becoming charedi Jews, they OBVIOUSLY feel threatend and overpowered by them. There is nothing that “we charedi Jews” can do about this ‘problem’ of theirs. However, as a result of this, they tend to find every oppurtunity to ‘blacken’ the name of charedi Jews in the secular media and try their luck in strengthening their existence- but to no avail, they seem to become less and less, with their birthrates dropping, devorce rates rising, and tose doing ‘yeridah’ leaving the country. Fact is, that any incident that may have happened or not amongst the charedi sector – hits a great scoop in the secular media, gains them a great ‘rating’ the articles are published and televission screens them way before checking up on all the details to make sure the entire story till it’s finest details actually happened and is authentic. This is a sad fact – but the reality!!
Thirdly, Yes, I agree that we do have ‘issues’ with exteremsts and minute groups of ‘hot headers’ who often out of boredom are looking for action and demonstrate for any reason under the sun, yes, they are to be condemed for their radical behaviour at times, and ofcourse are not acting as authentic Torah Jews should and sadly cause a great chillul Hashem. But we MUST defrinciate each case and take things in the right respectives, and in this case of ‘gender segregation’, there was no particular instance that set this off, it is entirely as mentioned a combination, political and chiloni propoganda. We as Jews are entiteled to live in EY, and in our neibourghoods as we wish, charedi Jews in their neibourghoods are entiteled to strengthen their adherence to the laws of tzenius and to request of the secular public passing through – to dress accordingly and be sensitive to the needs of the local residents, NO-ONE has ever gone into a secular neighbourhood and tried to coerce them to keep kosher, shabbos, and tzenius etc.., they have NO right (even according to laws of democracy) to enforce their views in our enclosed neighborhoods.
When TV reporters would enter your private home or school or even an enclosed strictly charedi neighbourhood without being invited, they are looking and asking for trouble. This would be the exact same reaction if a group of charedi reporters turned up in a secular neighborhood without being invited.
Rabosai, Please study and get a full and deep understanding of the ENTIRE picture before commenting or condeming an entire comunity or anybody for that matter.

By: Effie

Effie — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 13:33:57 +0000

What about attacking racism in the charedi community; what about issuing a kol koreh to treat other people like human beings and not like animals. My brother who made aliyah 3 years ago and lives in beit shemesh and is charedi was told point blank by many yeshivas that they dont take sepharadim. Maybe the mashiach hasn’t come not because of the internet or filtering water from some bugs or sheitelim from India maybe bein adam l’chaveiro is so lacking amongst the frumma velt that hashem is disgusted! I have taught in charedi yeshivas and let me tell you the racism that pervades there is shocking; this goyish attitude of racial and cultural supremacy has corrupted the yiddishe people and the gedolim are doing nothing to stop it; i think its because they know people won’t listen Instead of defending rashaim who demand to seperate their children from other Jews because they look different(even if they have the same exact hashkafa, my brother has no tv internet learns all day so no excuse of not having the same standards its just that his kids are dark)Its time to put any Jew who attacks other jews in such a violent manner and causes a chilul hashem into cheirem furthermore and most importantly let us resolve to use proactive approaches in chinuch to hashem forbid teach DIVERSITY in the frumma velt, believe me its no aveirah to teach our children to love and RESPECT other yidden. Only then can be prostrate ourselves before our creator and beg for our salvation.

By: Y_dont_U_research_b4_speaking

Y_dont_U_research_b4_speaking — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:29:34 +0000

MD said..
In your own neigborhood, like in Monsey or Lakewood, Rabbonim can set a standart what their Tznius level should be, till when can Pizza shops be open, etc. etc. That was a Rav’s job in every community for generations. The problem is JUST when they start using force.

THE PROBLEM is that your rav isn’t my rav. your rav and my rav may disagree as to what should be a halachick level of tznius. THEN, you can’t force me to follow YOUR rav.
AND without any one rav in the neighborhood (and the rav of the city basically a political appointment) your method of living will quickly break down into anarchy and into what we see today in RBS

By: Anglosaxon

Anglosaxon — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:21:07 +0000

“There was some tension yet once again most disagreements were ironed out and life went on. Then CHEAP HOUSING right on the border of Sheinfeld (the first and former neighborhood of National Religious residents, mostly olim and Anglo) was built and arrived the Meah Shearim ‘dissatisified kehilla’. They were promised nothing except reasonable housing…”

Sadly, even if a few of the troublemakers are sent to jail, it will do little to change the basic tensions.

On the other hand if the “cheap housing” were curtailed or shut down as a consequence, then suddenly they might discover drecheha darche noam.

By: ladler

ladler — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:09:50 +0000

zionflag: the original chareidi-Yerushalmi (not necessarily Chassidish) community in Beit Shemesh was (and still is) called Nachala uMenucha.

By: My Two Cents

My Two Cents — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:26:41 +0000

I want to start by stating that I think these thugs should be stopped and that it is unacceptable that for months on end they have been allowed to use methods of intimidation against anyone, particularly little girls. This is not free speech, it is thuggery and it should have been treated as such long ago.

With that said, I think that the Daati Leumi community should not have exposed their kids to this.

I know that they felt that they needed to put their foot down and say enough-is-enough in terms of the demands of these extremists that border their neighborhood. I even sympathize with that point of view.

Nonetheless, I think they should have done so in a different way. They should not have made 6, 7 and 8 year old girls the foot soldiers in their battle. Build a shul and let the adults take the taunts and intimidation, let them walk through the crowd and deal with the protests while their kids stay safe at home sheltered from this daily abuse.

In life it’s not enough to be right, one has to also be smart and above all a protective parent.

By: Dovid_from_Modiin

Dovid_from_Modiin — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:30:06 +0000

#6 lader –
It is not an issue of one little girl getting spit on. The charadim have been spitting, name calling and other harassments for many years now. It part of their intimidation and the their head rabbanim knows about and basically allow it because it gets what they want, to chase everyone out who doesn’t conform, drive the real estate down and take over another neighborhood!!!

Beit Shemesh was built in the 50′s the Charadim didn’t start to move into the area until the mid 90′s. Everyone should be respectful of everyone and not impose made up chumrot on others that don’t want to follow.

The Charadim Rabbanim, Charadim community leaders and Charadim MKs needs to strongly condem the actions of the Sikrikim/zealots and send a 10,000 Charadim to counter protest.

By: zionflag

zionflag — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:38:34 +0000

MDschweks and others:

Your facts are all wrong and ‘honest reporting’ is from accurate when viewed in a skewed manner by certain papers or people.

HISTORY OF BET SHEMESH: Over 20 years ago, Bet Shemesh was a sleepy, unexciting, immigrant city of secular and traditional Jews, the majority of Sephardic origin. Over 18 years ago, two groups arrived to settle in Bet Shemish, a chassidish group that lives in a community, Menuchah V’Simchah and a National Religious/Chardal group which built up the communities of Ramat Saviyon and Sheinfeld. (these neighborhoods border on each other) The three groups of residents (secular/traditional, National Religious and Chassidish) got along peacefully and benefited from each others services. Taxis, Parks, Pizza Shops, Groceries and take-out food eateries were shared and enjoyed. The mix of people were a bit spicy yet peace reigned nevertheless.
And then the Ramat Bet Shemesh ALeph and Bet were built, with a mix of religious and charedei families. There was some tension yet once again most disagreements were ironed out and life went on. Then CHEAP HOUSING right on the border of Sheinfeld (the first and former neighborhood of National Religious residents, mostly olim and Anglo) was built and arrived the Meah Shearim ‘dissatisified kehilla’. They were promised nothing except reasonable housing….if they want to live in an isolated community move to a GATED COMMUNITY where there is a GUARD who will allow only members to enter.

By: adams

adams — Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:10:19 +0000

So how do you know Rivka was cooerced, she did this on her own. Then according to this we should have everyone living like Avrohom Avinu, but that is the point, for Avrohom this was his way of life, he didn’t force and bully his ideas on other people.

And if you are comparing yourself to the Avos, would Avrohom Aveinu curse and yell like they do?