Comments on: Op-Ed: Neturei Karta is Wrong, But Where Are We?

By: chareidirbs

chareidirbs — Fri, 06 Apr 2012 04:30:42 +0000

#40, no , I am not defending zionism as you say.. but that Torah jewry is the yearn for Zion.. I heard that Rav Shach stated that the chareidim are the real zionists.. The truth is that the seculars who started the state were NOT zionists .. they were just atheists who thought they knew it all.

The fact is that more Chareidim are able to live in EY because of some of the benefits of the state.

i.e. stipends for learning in yeshiva.. funding for schools.. (that is something Americans can only dream about)..health care at decent prices..

The Chareidim who lived in EY before the state were only able to do so from support from chutz laaretz..

By: shein

shein — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 21:42:25 +0000

charrbs #39: Rav Shach was the biggest and most vocal critique of ALL of Zionism and the State. Religious zionism and secular zionism.

Stop trying to redefine zionism. It is all treif.

Living in Eretz Yisroel is indeed a mitzvah. That is not what zionism is all about. Chareidim have been living in Eretz Yisroel since the 1700′s, when the Vilna Gaon and Baal Shem’s talmidim moved there. Long before the zionists. And they’ve been living therein ever increasing numbers since. Long before the state existed.

By: chareidirbs

chareidirbs — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 18:32:56 +0000

yitchokm, Rav SHACH ZTL said that the chareidim are the real zionists!!! Zionist is not a bad word. It was just made out that way because of the horrific things that the SECULAR zionists did when they wanted to make the state.

Rav Zev Leff , shlita , stated that just because the zionists did the mitzvah wrong does not take away from the fact that it is still a mitzvah to live in the land of Israel..
it’s one thing to fight against the state BEFORE it was established but it’s wrong to say that it should not exist now when sooo many FRUM people live true Torah lives here..

and yes the Vilna Gaon was a REAL Torah True Zionist.. and so was R’Chaim Pinchas Scheinberg ZT”L. Stop focusing on the issues of the state and realize that we are lucky to be able to live Torah lives in the land of Israel.. I live here and surely don’t think about those issues like you do.

By: yitzchokm

yitzchokm — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 15:12:11 +0000

Don’tbeagolem,
If you really believe that we could have escaped the holocaust by following the rosha herzl I have a bridge to sell you. It’s in brooklyn.
He’s called a rasha because he rejected Gd and everything about Him. he was full of contempt for frum Jews and anything Jewish.
virtually all rabummin, including some of my grandparents fought Long and hard against this terrible concept of Zionist state.
I’m not sure what kind of chutzpah you need to have to call a kodush like the vilna Goan a zionist.
Thanks for the question, but no. I’m not nuts.

By: Derech

Derech — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 13:02:52 +0000

yitzchokm,

Well said, correct and to the point. Yasher Koach.

By: dontbeagolem

dontbeagolem — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 10:39:38 +0000

34. yitzchokm

sometimes g-d sends ezra – sometimes the vilna gaon (yes one of the first tziyonim)- sometimes rav tzi hersh kalisher & sometimes hertzel

as an aside – hertzel wasn’t observant (my rebbe says a galach daf zain frum a yid daf zain ehrlich) .. but why a rasha ?? was he a pedofile ?? was he friendly with Iran or Hamas like the NK (takeh reshaim) ??

as for your zaideh .. 6 million were slaughtered many could have been saved by escaping to israel .. you have the guts to tell them better to die than go to israel ?? are you nuts !!

finally zaides are people too. they make mistakes too. some even are involved in historical tragedies.

time to get with the program

the ribbono shel olam gave you a gift

the gift isnt perfect

but nonetheless it is a precious gift.

By: chareidirbs

chareidirbs — Thu, 05 Apr 2012 08:40:21 +0000

yitchokm, stop focusing on herzl (who by the way was not anti Torah, just ignorant as he was not brought up frum)and realize that EY is a place for Jews to live a true Torah life. Stop focusing on the faults of the founders of the State of Israel and realize that it is a great zechus to live here . Could it be that HKBH had the state started that way so we could be reminded that we are still in Golus? There are soooo many Chareidi families living in EY .

Yes, Ezra is proof. Here we are many years away from Herzl and we have an oppurtunity to live in our homeland..

By: yitzchokm

yitzchokm — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 21:54:00 +0000

Dont,
Excuse me? I’m quite aware of the history, thank you .
Your saying that those (like my grandparents) who don’t follow the call of a rosha like hertzel, to fight their way back into Israel should be punished? And you bring proof from Ezra? And i”m ignorant???
Oh, silly me!

By: dontbeagolem

dontbeagolem — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 19:41:24 +0000

yitzchokm:

your ignorance is shameful

not only did the majority of jews not go back to rebuild the 2nd temple but the ones who did were not exactly the “shentzte yidden” of bavel
Ezra was so upset he gave a knas to the leviim for their lack of participation, he took away their maaser
read tanach
read history books
dont be such an am haaretz the rest of your life

By: deepthinker

deepthinker — Wed, 04 Apr 2012 19:00:23 +0000

The answer to Arab terrorism was given by HOrav Amnon Yitzchok, SHLIT”A, in a lecture a couple of years ago.

He explained that Arab terrorism is orchestrated by G-D to wake us up from our slumber.

A state of Israel that sanctions Chilul Shabbos, violation of the standards of Tznius, and Toeva parades is a big problem. We are judged by our majority, and Chareidim are only 10% of the Israeli population.

He will immediately turn-off this terrorism if we show that we are prepared to change our ways.