Comments on: Opinion: Hold the Animosity Please

By: Old Faassioned Jew

Old Faassioned Jew — Sun, 20 May 2012 04:39:53 +0000

Thank you very much #23 for the well written critique and for this rare and healthy balance of Emes and Sholom. May this “Hakatan” light of clarity serve to dispell the great darkness and confusion which surrounds us.

By: HaKatan

HaKatan — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 04:17:39 +0000

Rabbi Spiras words are appreciated, and his point is a good one, insofar as respecting the other person even if you disagree with his ideology. In other words, if you live in Israel and you “protest” against their memorial day ceremonies, I agree with Rabbi Spira that you may well be hurting your fellow Jew standing next to you and this is wrong.

However, this does not in any way permit one to tolerate liHalacha this anti-Torah travesty of Zionism. So I believe the forums should be used to express honest opinions (and, speaking about others here, there seem to be some rather learned posts, too) about our holy Torah. Since Zionism is inherently incompatible with, liHavdil, the Torah, it makes sense to point that out as much as is necessary.

AS I said, I agree 100% with Rabbi Spira’s remarks that:
“If you do not wish to stand at attention for a memorial siren, fine – but have a bit of compassion for the yid at your side who identifies with this.”

But not at all with:
“The IDF is a source of great Jewish pride”
Why? HaKol Kol Yaakov. This is not our strength, and is unnatural. Further, war is hell, and Israel has never know a day of peace in its existence. Why should anyone be proud to be a part of that?

Everyone davens for all Israeli Jews because they are fellow Jews in potential danger, CH”V, Hashem Yishmor. (There is a famous story of the Satmar Rav, Zatza”L, not a Zionist, of course, who davened for the safety of some soldiers who were in danger.) But that doesn’t mean the IDF is a source of pride. If anything, it but one multi-faceted illustration about how wrong Zionism was and is.

and not either with:
“if you have to bash the state in an open forum, please at least be considerate enough to move to Eretz Yisrael and do it here, as a member of the country, and do not be brazen enough to continue sitting wherever you may be abroad and with righteous indignation labeling those you perceive as “Zionists” as the biggest problem facing the Jewish People.”

Aderaba. If you move to Israel, then you have to have hakaras haTov for the government who is tasked with protecting you so it would probably be proper to refrain from criticizing as much. Whereas outside Israel, you have no such obligation so you can “call it like it is”. And “brazenly” sitting abroad is part of this galus, may Hashem end it speedily in our days so we can all live in E”Y with the true gelah sheleimah, Amein.

As for the last part of that quote, it is our gedolim of yesteryear who warned that “Zionism” would be a disaster, and it certainly has been. It is furthermore quite evident that it is the biggest problem facing us as a people because it is in violation of the shalosh shevuos, which is clearly not a smart move, as R”L has been quite evident in the pages of newspapers world-wide.

The general politics is really all nothing as “Lev Melachim ViSarim biYad Hashem”. But what can be said of this massive violation of the (un)natural order in which Hashem placed us in following the churban bayis sheini?

Finally, it’s nice that there are some improvements on the observance front, even though chazir trief is still chazir treif any way you slice it.

May Hashem redeem us all BB”A.

By: avhaben

avhaben — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 22:00:49 +0000

I disagree. Any Jew in the world, including outside EY, has the right to criticize zionism. (Many [but not all] of the gedolim who did so, too, lived outside EY.)

Btw, is this the Spira that used to write and report news articles on this website?

By: brooklynhocker

brooklynhocker — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 21:05:58 +0000

Chareidi “Lite” – like Bud “Lite” (it’s a spelling mistake). Basiclly not a “Maya Shorim hard line Chareidi”.
Very well written, but unfortunatly in the world we live in “everybody is a critic” so the bashing will continue.

By: Miriam

Miriam — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:41:28 +0000

Very, very beautifully written. Everyone needs to take your words to heart.

By: sane conservative

sane conservative — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:28:12 +0000

What does “Chareidi Light” mean.

By: talmidbavli

talmidbavli — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:17:57 +0000

There is a false perception in the world that the Jewish nationalists are the representatives of Jews and Jewish interests in the holy land and in the diaspora. This is clearly not so, for the proponents of a passing secular ideology cannot speak for an established People of the world’s most ancient faith. They have expounded in their congresses about creating a Utopia in the Middle East but instead have spawned the globe’s most insurmountable conflict! Rather than serving those who promise us nothing but perpetual war, death and disillusionment, let us instead serve G-d who commands us to choose life.

By: zionflag

zionflag — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:32:08 +0000

THANK YOU AND THANK YOU for expressing the feelings of many of those born between 1945 and 1980.
We grew up with Rabbanim, Gedolim, Manhigim that were much more community and national oriented. You, youngsters can not imagine New York in 1967 during the days prior to and during the 6 days war and its myriad miracles. My parents always reminded me what it was like listening to the voice at the UN on May 15, 1948 and the pure, unadultered happiness of klal yisroel particularly the survivors and refugees of the war. Amen vamen.
There are a large and growing kehilla of Charedei Light families….am yisroel chai.

By: AlanH923

AlanH923 — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:16:31 +0000

Rabbi Spira’s article is extremely well written and on point. Yasher Koach.

By: chaimbuel

chaimbuel — Wed, 25 Apr 2012 17:44:59 +0000

Rabbi Spira,

We all respect and appreciate the work of the soliders—the issue here is a Halachik opinion of the Vilna Gaon that it is prohibited to follow a non-Jewish custom. Although the shalshan Aruch permits such customs that have logic to them, the Gaon’s opinion is that it is a prohibition from the Torah of B’chukosayhem.

The same way we do not place flowers on the keveram rather we use stones in deference of the Gaon’s opinion (although placing flowers has logic) even though you can argue that a non-religious Jew we think bad of us not using flowers, so too one is allowed to follow his Halachik convictions as long as he is not infringing on someone else’s rights.
This Halachik issue of the Gaon’s opinion is well documented in Rav Moshe’s responses and it is unfortunate that everything has to be made into a haskafa conflict and personal machlokes.