Comments on: Out Of The Mailbag – To YW Editor (A Shadchan’s Plea)

By: Bitachon

Bitachon — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:13:20 +0000

As with all statistics, one must be careful not to jump to conclusions regarding the reason for the “statistics”. In this case, even if it true that 80% of the time the girl is the one who initiated the breakup when the breakup occurred at an advanced stage, this does not necessarily prove that girls are more picky. It actually may be a proof that girls are less picky. Perhaps the reason for these “statistics” is that girls are more likely to push themselves and to try to give things a shot even if they aren’t so into it, whereas boys will not continue to date someone and allow things to get to an “advanced” stage unless they were really interested from the beginning. Therefore, in most cases where the shidduch reached an advanced stage, it was only because the girl was “pushing herself” the whole time, whereas the boy was really interested from day one. In my personal dating experience, I have found that most of the guys I’ve dated only agreed to a third date if they had pretty much already decided they wanted to marry me. On the other hand, I have often agreed to continue going out with someone I wasn’t particularly interested in because I felt that I should give it a try.

By: tutzech

tutzech — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 16:06:13 +0000

oy vey not again

By: happy1027

happy1027 — Sun, 30 Dec 2007 06:27:33 +0000

I think that the point the person is making is somewhat valid I have heard stories from some of my friends who have given up on shidduchim for these reason, some of them have been my friends (girls) and some of them from the boys they have been seeing. I think that anytime a shaddchim hears a crazy question that the guy (or guy’s parents or even the girl) they should basically say that they will not do the shidduch I am not sure why these guys have list with all their crazy questions. If I find out that a guy has a list I will say thank you and good buy I think that shaddchim have to be on top of the situation when they get these question and not to give these guys any girl and for any parents of girls out there you should do the same if even if it is hard. Trust me I may not be considered old (because I am not over 25) but I know how hard it is to get a shidduch if everyone would tell the guys (or whoever it is) that they are not going out if they have to answer silly questions I think things would change. But i guess that is only my opinion.

By: shmuelt

shmuelt — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:41:53 +0000

three streams here
women tend to burn out on the market after x number of dates (just like they burn out in the job market) much easier than the men. What is the community going to do about that?

second, and related is the need for a course of training for people going out on the market
what they should really ask, whats important, whats fairy tale
they should talk this over in trusted environment (evidentally not at home for many girls) so they have a better chance at success

third, what is wrong with a boy successfully frum in the job market? I personally never even went to Bet Midrash because of my family financial situation and have spent more time learning over the past 25 years than most of my community! I B E H have had fewer problems with my kids than he average family in my community

By: Single and Searching

Single and Searching — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:18:17 +0000

Firstly, I would like to commend and thank BYL for all the hard work and for posting this wonderfully written letter.
Personally, my experience is quite the opposite. Mostly I see guys who dont give the girl a second chance because they have a ‘list’ of perfect girls waiting to go out with them. They become blinded by the lists of girls who seem perfect on paper that they are not willing to deal with any issues at hand. They do not feel that any effort is needed in building a relationship. They do not feel they should be ‘forced to give in on anything’.
I think they need to realize that noone is asking them to ‘give in’. What we are asking is that they realize that there are advantages and disadvantages to every person. Unfortunetly, these facts are not always apparent on ‘paper’. What we ask is that once you say yes to a girl, please, forget about your list for a moment and focus on the qualities of the girl you are actually dating. Because you are seeing the full picture with her. Forget about the the list of girls who at this point are all theoretical. Remember you are seeing only a single dimension of a girl before you go out with her.

By: smartgal

smartgal — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 05:39:09 +0000

Being a single gal in the shidduch “game” , it is true that from myslef and most my friends we are the ones that usually nix the guys. However, a lot of us do have a “give it a 2nd shot” attitude and we encourage e/ other to go out again & see what happens. I have only nixed a guy after the 1st date -if it was a middos issue or just way off in terms of personality or frumkeit. So I think that us girls while we may usually be the ones to say no after 1-3 dates , I think that our reasons are justifiable. Yes we are taught in seminary about warning signs to look for in boys and we are taught that being a mentch and having sterling middos are the most important things to us So if any of u single boyz out there are wondering how to “win our hearts” listen up!- it is by displaying your middos, such as emes, generosity, warmth, being a good listener and communicator, considerate, sensitive , and then obviously the hashkafos and personalities have to match or click. by the wya many of us do having dating mentors or teachers that we specifically call ( its not always easy to reach the mentors bec their helping so many girls)
another point I want to make is that some of my friends and I have gone out with a few “older boys” even though we’re under 23 , and have on more than 1 occasion come close in a relationsjhio w/ them -when the BOY felt that he just wasnt ready to get married . So we are hesitant to go out w/ older boys because many of them seem to have commitment fears.
Anyway to summarize both guys and girls have their faults -we were created differently men are more logical & women are more emotional and we do often trust our instincts and gut feelings but hey thats why shidduchim is such a great miracle who wud ever think a guy & girl can actually live together ??!

By: some jew

some jew — Fri, 28 Dec 2007 03:25:21 +0000

Oy! you people can argue till your fingertips fall off but the main point is you should all stop trying to lay blame somewhere and instead you should be trying to set up the single people you know! Don’t you know the famous saying do not judge another until you have walked a mile in their shoes!!!!!! For every story someone has of a shidduch where the girl was “at fault” I can tell a story where the boy was “at fault” or vice versa. and anyways did it ever occur to you that most of the time when a shidduch does not end in a happy marriage it is because it was NOT MEANT TO BE!!!!! May all the eligible single girls and boys be zoche to find their true zivug in the right time!

By: sammy

sammy — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:21:34 +0000

willi- i agree with you-not everyone can decide in 1 or 2 times.i was lucky that things went smoothly.now i am b’h very happily married with a baby on the way……..
however the point of a b’show is not to notice and analyze the positive and negative of the other, but rather to see how well they interact, by just sitting and talking about anything under the sun.and believe me, you can get a basic idea of a person by just simply conversing with him/her.the way a person conducts a conversation can show his/her middos,way of thinking,character and most of all, give a basic idea if this is someone you would spend the rest of your life with.some people find it hard.so no problem-go ahead and have 4 or 5 b’shows.the point is not to make it quick and short,but to make sure this is the right decision.and looks is not everything. hashem gives and takes.to reject someone because “she is not good looking” or “he is fat” is really nearsightedness.i hope singles will lower their demands and open up their eyes to the real world out there.maybe then they will realize that they cannot be picky with everything!!
get my point??

By: DM

DM — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:08:15 +0000

#72 How true what you write is.

The “Friends” … Oy … how well meaning friends destroy shidduchim….

I came close. I am married not since Ellul of two years ago, (2 1/4 years ago, Sept. 2005)

I live in Florida, and my Kallah lived in Flatbush. All was going perfectly, we already had the vort and all. Then this one “Friend” told her, “Break it off! You will hate Florida! How could you marry someone who is not in Brooklyn! You never lived outside of Brooklyn in your life, you will hate it.”

Well, this shook up my prospective kallah, and really frightened her. Thank G-d, she had enough middos to not break a vort, and went through it, though with fear or moving.

We are lucky that the friend did not come along until after the vort, or we may both still be single.

When you look at the friend, in this case, more closely, you see a woman who did not want to lose a single friend, and was motivated by her own subconscious needs, instead of giving true advice.

By: DeliberatelyEsoteric

DeliberatelyEsoteric — Thu, 27 Dec 2007 21:19:30 +0000

Ya know what gets my goat? When guys who are – pardon me – ugly (or even average-looking) insist that they will only agree to date/marry Miss America. And guys whose secular education never made it past long division and the periodic table of elements (if that!) who will only agree to date/marry girls with letters after their name (the mighty DEGREE). And girls who are heavy and get insulted when a larger-sized boy is suggested for them.

BE REALISTIC!!