YES UNFORTUNATELY TRUE . LIKE ANYWHERE ELSE. MAYBE THERE IS A NEED TO REPORT THIS OR MAYBE NOT I’M NOT SURE NOR AM I THE ONE TO DECIDE , BUT THE PICTURE THIS PAINTS IS NOT THE ENTIRE PICTURE NOR THE REALITY OF OF THE MATTER . THIS SEEMS TO CONDEMN EVERYONE .AND THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT TRUE . THERE ARE THOUSANDS WHO ARE TRULY MISPALLEL AND ARE GOOD AND BETTER THAN GOOD . WHEN ONE PAINTS THE UNFORTUNATE, AT THE SAME TIME MUST ALSO PAINT THE GOOD AS WELL , AND MAYBE EVEN MORE SO ,WHICH FACTUALLY IS THE TRUTH
THE TITLE AS WELL “. WATCH: Large Quantity Of Drugs Seized In Uman During Rosh Hashanah 2017/5778” tHE WORD “UNFORTUNATELY ‘ IS MISSING IN THE TITLE “WATCH”??? IS IT SO HEARTWARMING TO WATCH ? ASHAMNU WE SAY QUIETLY WITH SHAME , NOT WATCH . MAYBE ” HELP NEEDED ” SHOULD BE THE TITLE , HELP THOSE LOST PEOPLE
WHO LOSE /LOST THEIR LIFE AND SOUL TO DRUGS . DO A CHESED TRY TO HELP THEM . LOVE THE , THEY ARE STILL UR BROTHERS .CRY FOR THEM , HAVE SOME FEELINGS FOR THEM. MOST ,OR NONE OF US CAN SAY THEY PERFECT AND NEVER SINNED , MAY BE A MECHALLEL SHABBOS EVEN BY MISTAKE ( BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T LEARN HILCHOS SHABBOS ) IS WORSE ? MAYBE , MAYBE YOU SPOKE ONCE OR TWICE LOSHON HORA ( ABOUT 36 AVRIOUS IN EVERY !! WORD ) . WISHING ALL OF KLAL YISROEL AS GEMAR CHASIMA TOVA! ” YISROEL AF AL PE SHECOTO , YISROEL HU !!
Any arrests?
How sweet were the days (not so long ago), that When talking about drugs in our community, it meant antibiotics etc….
no one knew what the other drugs looked like..
Is this what you call a Large Quantity Of Drugs? Not to say that this did not cause a Chilul Hashem!!! To all parents do NOT allow your children to go to Uman…
That’s not A large amount of drugs of course any amount is not appropriate those upstanding law enforcement agencies in that law abiding country would NEVER TOLERATE DRUGS BUT VODKA GOES ALONG WAY IN THE UKRAINE😀
The Satan has succeeded well in making a pilgrimage to Uman, intended as a high point of kedusha, into a rave party. I am sure there are many who find their spiritual uplift. I cannot knock that. But with the opportunity for such kedusha, there is a corresponding injection from yetzer horah. It has been observed for manyyears now that Uman has become a social scene, and this brings with it the many vices that plague the frum community just like others. I do hope there will be arrests, and that those responsible will face consequences. They are certainly not afraid of the Yom Hadin of Rosh Hashanah. Maybe they can get the message with handcuffs and a taste of a Ukrainian prison. Teshuvah is open to them, as well. I would talk about treatment, but I refer to the dealers and sellers, who are bad, not the addicts who are only sick.
The little I know, what do you think should happen to dealers and sellers of cigarettes? Tobacco is also an addictive drug. Or should people take full responsibility for their actions. Not everything that is wrong is criminal.
Yehi ratzon that we should go higher and higher in our avodas Hashem.
rational:
I reserve tobacco for another thread. In the case of drugs, I frown upon the current leniency from many state and local governments on the criminalization of drugs. It is a grave error with long term consequences that are rather serious. I cannot determine what the appropriate sentences should be, but going easy is neither effective or smart. For drug kingpins, the death penalty is reasonable. Dealers (major) should be incarcerated long term. Petty dealers on the street should have a three strike limit to classify as major dealers. If the courts don’t take a strong stand, the entire drug war is all but lost. If if it is lost, sizable chunks of all communities will be devastated by the losses of lives, families, etc.
y2r: I can’t tell if you are being facetious or naive, but either way, you are wrong. Our community has never been immune from the general ills that plague all societies– we are just better at ignoring and hiding them.
I can’t see what was in the smaller bags that didn’t contain marijuana, but if it’s a “hard drug”, then all those baggies would certainly constitute a large quantity of drugs.
In any case, we don’t need to give the Ukrainians any more reason to hate us, and we should be more respectful as guests in their country.
TLIK,
You assume that the war on drugs is effective. You also need to define what exactly is a crime. But like you said another thread.
rational:
I once had the occasion to meet someone who worked for the US Coast Guard, and was in a program that did interdiction – they stopped boats and ships trafficking drugs coming into US. They were painfully aware that they were intercepting about 4% of all the incoming shipments of drugs. That has minimal benefit to America’s streets. TSA is useless for what arrives by air.
If we had a court system that was moderately effective in arresting, prosecuting, and eliminating the dealers, we might get somewhere. If we had a system that made treatment available to all ages, that would go a long way to reducing demand. Alas, we have none of the prongs needed to make an appreciable dent.
The legalization movement has stripped law enforcement from doing much. The health care coverage being close to zero for addiction treatment makes treatment options very close to useless. You are correct. We are losing the war on drugs.
A few bothering questions:
When were these drugs to be taken? Before Tekios or after?
Was it to be dipped in honey and the prayer of “Yehi Ratzon Shyiya Lezanov” or “Sh’Tamu” said?
Perhaps “Yaleh Tachninenu”
Were they going to say “Horenu Mekasher Nafshi” after or prior ?
Is it considered Oichel Nefesh and permitted on Yom Tov?
The little I know,
Maybe I’ve been too brief to be understood.
The war on drugs is not effective in preventing crime, the main reason for making it a crime. There are reasons for legalisation besides stoners wanting to bring society down.
First legalisation does not lead to an increase in use. In Portugal use has been cut in half since legalisation in 2001.
Second many crimes associated with drugs are as a result of its being illegal, such as gang violence and customers becoming influenced by the dealers.
Third the drug which causes the most crime is alcohol. 40 percent of violent crime and over half of murders is related to alcohol. The rate of drug related crime is dramatically lower. Cannabis is also less addictive than alcohol, although both can be used safely. The best way to reduce abuse is to improve rehabilitation opportunities and educate people in schools etc about safe use.
Fourth when cannabis is illegal it becomes less accessible or inaccessible to patients who need it desperately to treat various diseases. It can literally save lives.
Fifth the definition of crime is when one party is causing harm to another. Why can’t I have a casual smoke just because someone else might abuse it? Do you think the same about alcohol? Fight real crime don’t create crime. Millions are being wasted arresting harmless people. Use that to fight really dangerous behaviour.
Legislation saves lives. Don’t work harder, work smarter.
Gaon:
You ask relevant shailos. Here are the piskei halacha.
They are taken at the seudah on the first night of Rosh Hashana. They are not dipped in honey, especially those that are smoked (כל שאור וכל דבש לא תקטירו). The proper tefila to recite is: “L-rd get me high.”
@The Little I know, to quote your above comment “The Satan has succeeded well in making a pilgrimage to Uman, intended as a high point of kedusha, into a rave party. I am sure there are many who find their spiritual uplift. I cannot knock that. But with the opportunity for such kedusha, there is a corresponding injection from yetzer horah. It has been observed for manyyears now that Uman has become a social scene, and this brings with it the many vices that plague the frum community just like others”
Allow me to educate you on why ~80,000 yidden were in Uman this year for Rosh Hashana.
Rebbe Nachman wanted every single Jew/Neshama to be by him for Rosh Hashana. Period.
Only the Tzadik HaEmes (singular) can do Hamtakas Hadinim B’Shorshoi/Sweetening the Decrees at their core. Period.
The Tzaddik HaEmes is one who attains such a level of self-mastery and spirituality that all his thoughts, feelings and actions – his very being are in total consonance with G-d’s will. This gives him a uniquely close relationship with G-d. (I am not saying this, everything written in this comment has mekoros from the Sefarim HeKedoshim)
As written by Rabbi Chaim Kramer of the Breslov Research Institute in 1992:
What is it about Uman that attracts so many people n from literally all over the world to spend Rosh HaShanah a way from wives, children, and families. The answer lies in a simple yet often misunderstood concept – the Tzaddik.
The Tzaddik is one who attains such a level of self-mastery and spirituality that all his thoughts, feelings and actions – his very being are in total consonance with G-d’s will. This gives him a uniquely close relationship with G-d. In essence, what distinguishes the Tzaddik from anyone else is that he has an unparalleled mastery of the spiritual, which gives him the ability to bridge the physical and spiritual worlds. Yet for all his spirituality, he is, and remains, a human being. This indeed is his strength. He is able to channel Torah spirituality into this world, and guide others as to how to serve G-d.
Every year Rebbe Nachman’s followers used to travel to be with him for Rosh HaShanah. Hundreds came for his last Rosh HaShanah in 1810. It was then that he made his strongest statements ever about the importance of coming to him for Rosh HaShanah. “No one should be missing,” he said, “Rosh HaShanah is my whole mission” (Tzaddik #403).
People who have never been in Uman for Rosh HaShanah may wonder what it means to go to the Tzaddik if he isn’t actually there in the flesh. But for those who have had the experience, the Rebbe’s spirit can be felt at every turn: at the Tzion, where somehow one finds oneself expressing one’s deepest personal needs and issues so naturally; in the shul, where “intensity” is too tame a word to describe the rapturous joy and profound awe that inspire the entire gathering; in the singing and dancing accompanying the Yom Tov meals; at Tashlich; and in the words of Torah that flow forth, whether at the organized shiurim or in informal study sessions and conversations with old friends and new.. Each person comes away with a wealth of new insights and chizuk – encouragement, to start the new year off on the right footing, as well as knowing that the Tzadik HaEmes has done Tikkunim on his Neshama.
We can see now that Rosh HaShanah is the day that the rest of the year depends on -even the rest of the world. As the Rebbe said: “The entire world is dependent upon my Rosh HaShanah” (Tzaddik #405). So what is it that Rebbe Nachman wants us to gain from this day? Rosh HaShanah is actually a marvelous goodness to the world, and as the Rebbe teaches/ “G-d gave Rosh HaShanah out of great kindness” (Likutey Moharan 11, 1:14). When we begin to fathom the remarkable role that the tzaddik can play on this day, we realize why it is considered such a goodness and, in fact, presents us with a unique opportunity.
TLIK,
Great point!
“They are not dipped in honey, especially those that are smoked (כל שאור וכל דבש לא תקטירו). ”
Ah, now that we know that we are dealing with Ketoras (which is also done at night) we need to point out that although honey is forbidden, it should be dipped into salt (preferably מלח סדומית) .
Does “L-rd get me high.” cover the Hereni Mekasher Nafshi …” part as well?
I think it should. At least ‘be’dieved…
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YES UNFORTUNATELY TRUE . LIKE ANYWHERE ELSE. MAYBE THERE IS A NEED TO REPORT THIS OR MAYBE NOT I’M NOT SURE NOR AM I THE ONE TO DECIDE , BUT THE PICTURE THIS PAINTS IS NOT THE ENTIRE PICTURE NOR THE REALITY OF OF THE MATTER . THIS SEEMS TO CONDEMN EVERYONE .AND THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT TRUE . THERE ARE THOUSANDS WHO ARE TRULY MISPALLEL AND ARE GOOD AND BETTER THAN GOOD . WHEN ONE PAINTS THE UNFORTUNATE, AT THE SAME TIME MUST ALSO PAINT THE GOOD AS WELL , AND MAYBE EVEN MORE SO ,WHICH FACTUALLY IS THE TRUTH
THE TITLE AS WELL “. WATCH: Large Quantity Of Drugs Seized In Uman During Rosh Hashanah 2017/5778” tHE WORD “UNFORTUNATELY ‘ IS MISSING IN THE TITLE “WATCH”??? IS IT SO HEARTWARMING TO WATCH ? ASHAMNU WE SAY QUIETLY WITH SHAME , NOT WATCH . MAYBE ” HELP NEEDED ” SHOULD BE THE TITLE , HELP THOSE LOST PEOPLE
WHO LOSE /LOST THEIR LIFE AND SOUL TO DRUGS . DO A CHESED TRY TO HELP THEM . LOVE THE , THEY ARE STILL UR BROTHERS .CRY FOR THEM , HAVE SOME FEELINGS FOR THEM. MOST ,OR NONE OF US CAN SAY THEY PERFECT AND NEVER SINNED , MAY BE A MECHALLEL SHABBOS EVEN BY MISTAKE ( BECAUSE YOU DIDN’T LEARN HILCHOS SHABBOS ) IS WORSE ? MAYBE , MAYBE YOU SPOKE ONCE OR TWICE LOSHON HORA ( ABOUT 36 AVRIOUS IN EVERY !! WORD ) . WISHING ALL OF KLAL YISROEL AS GEMAR CHASIMA TOVA! ” YISROEL AF AL PE SHECOTO , YISROEL HU !!
Any arrests?
How sweet were the days (not so long ago), that When talking about drugs in our community, it meant antibiotics etc….
no one knew what the other drugs looked like..
Is this what you call a Large Quantity Of Drugs? Not to say that this did not cause a Chilul Hashem!!! To all parents do NOT allow your children to go to Uman…
That’s not A large amount of drugs of course any amount is not appropriate those upstanding law enforcement agencies in that law abiding country would NEVER TOLERATE DRUGS BUT VODKA GOES ALONG WAY IN THE UKRAINE😀
The Satan has succeeded well in making a pilgrimage to Uman, intended as a high point of kedusha, into a rave party. I am sure there are many who find their spiritual uplift. I cannot knock that. But with the opportunity for such kedusha, there is a corresponding injection from yetzer horah. It has been observed for manyyears now that Uman has become a social scene, and this brings with it the many vices that plague the frum community just like others. I do hope there will be arrests, and that those responsible will face consequences. They are certainly not afraid of the Yom Hadin of Rosh Hashanah. Maybe they can get the message with handcuffs and a taste of a Ukrainian prison. Teshuvah is open to them, as well. I would talk about treatment, but I refer to the dealers and sellers, who are bad, not the addicts who are only sick.
The little I know, what do you think should happen to dealers and sellers of cigarettes? Tobacco is also an addictive drug. Or should people take full responsibility for their actions. Not everything that is wrong is criminal.
Yehi ratzon that we should go higher and higher in our avodas Hashem.
rational:
I reserve tobacco for another thread. In the case of drugs, I frown upon the current leniency from many state and local governments on the criminalization of drugs. It is a grave error with long term consequences that are rather serious. I cannot determine what the appropriate sentences should be, but going easy is neither effective or smart. For drug kingpins, the death penalty is reasonable. Dealers (major) should be incarcerated long term. Petty dealers on the street should have a three strike limit to classify as major dealers. If the courts don’t take a strong stand, the entire drug war is all but lost. If if it is lost, sizable chunks of all communities will be devastated by the losses of lives, families, etc.
y2r: I can’t tell if you are being facetious or naive, but either way, you are wrong. Our community has never been immune from the general ills that plague all societies– we are just better at ignoring and hiding them.
I can’t see what was in the smaller bags that didn’t contain marijuana, but if it’s a “hard drug”, then all those baggies would certainly constitute a large quantity of drugs.
In any case, we don’t need to give the Ukrainians any more reason to hate us, and we should be more respectful as guests in their country.
TLIK,
You assume that the war on drugs is effective. You also need to define what exactly is a crime. But like you said another thread.
rational:
I once had the occasion to meet someone who worked for the US Coast Guard, and was in a program that did interdiction – they stopped boats and ships trafficking drugs coming into US. They were painfully aware that they were intercepting about 4% of all the incoming shipments of drugs. That has minimal benefit to America’s streets. TSA is useless for what arrives by air.
If we had a court system that was moderately effective in arresting, prosecuting, and eliminating the dealers, we might get somewhere. If we had a system that made treatment available to all ages, that would go a long way to reducing demand. Alas, we have none of the prongs needed to make an appreciable dent.
The legalization movement has stripped law enforcement from doing much. The health care coverage being close to zero for addiction treatment makes treatment options very close to useless. You are correct. We are losing the war on drugs.
A few bothering questions:
When were these drugs to be taken? Before Tekios or after?
Was it to be dipped in honey and the prayer of “Yehi Ratzon Shyiya Lezanov” or “Sh’Tamu” said?
Perhaps “Yaleh Tachninenu”
Were they going to say “Horenu Mekasher Nafshi” after or prior ?
Is it considered Oichel Nefesh and permitted on Yom Tov?
The little I know,
Maybe I’ve been too brief to be understood.
The war on drugs is not effective in preventing crime, the main reason for making it a crime. There are reasons for legalisation besides stoners wanting to bring society down.
First legalisation does not lead to an increase in use. In Portugal use has been cut in half since legalisation in 2001.
Second many crimes associated with drugs are as a result of its being illegal, such as gang violence and customers becoming influenced by the dealers.
Third the drug which causes the most crime is alcohol. 40 percent of violent crime and over half of murders is related to alcohol. The rate of drug related crime is dramatically lower. Cannabis is also less addictive than alcohol, although both can be used safely. The best way to reduce abuse is to improve rehabilitation opportunities and educate people in schools etc about safe use.
Fourth when cannabis is illegal it becomes less accessible or inaccessible to patients who need it desperately to treat various diseases. It can literally save lives.
Fifth the definition of crime is when one party is causing harm to another. Why can’t I have a casual smoke just because someone else might abuse it? Do you think the same about alcohol? Fight real crime don’t create crime. Millions are being wasted arresting harmless people. Use that to fight really dangerous behaviour.
Legislation saves lives. Don’t work harder, work smarter.
Gaon:
You ask relevant shailos. Here are the piskei halacha.
They are taken at the seudah on the first night of Rosh Hashana. They are not dipped in honey, especially those that are smoked (כל שאור וכל דבש לא תקטירו). The proper tefila to recite is: “L-rd get me high.”
@The Little I know, to quote your above comment “The Satan has succeeded well in making a pilgrimage to Uman, intended as a high point of kedusha, into a rave party. I am sure there are many who find their spiritual uplift. I cannot knock that. But with the opportunity for such kedusha, there is a corresponding injection from yetzer horah. It has been observed for manyyears now that Uman has become a social scene, and this brings with it the many vices that plague the frum community just like others”
Allow me to educate you on why ~80,000 yidden were in Uman this year for Rosh Hashana.
Rebbe Nachman wanted every single Jew/Neshama to be by him for Rosh Hashana. Period.
Only the Tzadik HaEmes (singular) can do Hamtakas Hadinim B’Shorshoi/Sweetening the Decrees at their core. Period.
The Tzaddik HaEmes is one who attains such a level of self-mastery and spirituality that all his thoughts, feelings and actions – his very being are in total consonance with G-d’s will. This gives him a uniquely close relationship with G-d. (I am not saying this, everything written in this comment has mekoros from the Sefarim HeKedoshim)
As written by Rabbi Chaim Kramer of the Breslov Research Institute in 1992:
What is it about Uman that attracts so many people n from literally all over the world to spend Rosh HaShanah a way from wives, children, and families. The answer lies in a simple yet often misunderstood concept – the Tzaddik.
The Tzaddik is one who attains such a level of self-mastery and spirituality that all his thoughts, feelings and actions – his very being are in total consonance with G-d’s will. This gives him a uniquely close relationship with G-d. In essence, what distinguishes the Tzaddik from anyone else is that he has an unparalleled mastery of the spiritual, which gives him the ability to bridge the physical and spiritual worlds. Yet for all his spirituality, he is, and remains, a human being. This indeed is his strength. He is able to channel Torah spirituality into this world, and guide others as to how to serve G-d.
Every year Rebbe Nachman’s followers used to travel to be with him for Rosh HaShanah. Hundreds came for his last Rosh HaShanah in 1810. It was then that he made his strongest statements ever about the importance of coming to him for Rosh HaShanah. “No one should be missing,” he said, “Rosh HaShanah is my whole mission” (Tzaddik #403).
People who have never been in Uman for Rosh HaShanah may wonder what it means to go to the Tzaddik if he isn’t actually there in the flesh. But for those who have had the experience, the Rebbe’s spirit can be felt at every turn: at the Tzion, where somehow one finds oneself expressing one’s deepest personal needs and issues so naturally; in the shul, where “intensity” is too tame a word to describe the rapturous joy and profound awe that inspire the entire gathering; in the singing and dancing accompanying the Yom Tov meals; at Tashlich; and in the words of Torah that flow forth, whether at the organized shiurim or in informal study sessions and conversations with old friends and new.. Each person comes away with a wealth of new insights and chizuk – encouragement, to start the new year off on the right footing, as well as knowing that the Tzadik HaEmes has done Tikkunim on his Neshama.
We can see now that Rosh HaShanah is the day that the rest of the year depends on -even the rest of the world. As the Rebbe said: “The entire world is dependent upon my Rosh HaShanah” (Tzaddik #405). So what is it that Rebbe Nachman wants us to gain from this day? Rosh HaShanah is actually a marvelous goodness to the world, and as the Rebbe teaches/ “G-d gave Rosh HaShanah out of great kindness” (Likutey Moharan 11, 1:14). When we begin to fathom the remarkable role that the tzaddik can play on this day, we realize why it is considered such a goodness and, in fact, presents us with a unique opportunity.
TLIK,
Great point!
“They are not dipped in honey, especially those that are smoked (כל שאור וכל דבש לא תקטירו). ”
Ah, now that we know that we are dealing with Ketoras (which is also done at night) we need to point out that although honey is forbidden, it should be dipped into salt (preferably מלח סדומית) .
Does “L-rd get me high.” cover the Hereni Mekasher Nafshi …” part as well?
I think it should. At least ‘be’dieved…