Comments on: Out Of The Mailbag – To YW Editor (Shabbos Coffee-Maker)

By: woodsy1

woodsy1 — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 19:45:08 +0000

#29, excellent point. I knew there was a moral to this story.

By: knaidel41

knaidel41 — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:53:59 +0000

what an inspiring story and lesson to all of our us as well as the young people of our generation, many of whom don’t want to listen to anyone of authority such as rebbe’s, moros etc. (maybe not even parents) i think it should be read or printed and passed out to all high school kids. if even a handful take the lesson and apply it to their lives it would be worth it!

By: jjlkwd

jjlkwd — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:55:21 +0000

#35. the storyteller left out the exact details of what was being done with the coffee. so i wouldnt judge without knowing the facts. the main point is that in your saying from der heim, is that a ruv who nobody likes doesnt have a kehilla (nobody listens to him)hence is not a ruv by default. r’ avigdor miller ztl says theres a special place in gehinom for rabbonim who dont give mussar/ rebuke .

By: matzahlocaol101

matzahlocaol101 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:35:04 +0000

While Mr. G is to be admired for his disposition, I, not having such a disposition, have to question the Rov. Instant coffee is cooked long before you ever see it. Putting into a kli shani, which most people do, is already chumrah. Sugar likewise is cooked. They boil sugar cane to get the sugar out. Everybody puts the milk in after the hot water, once again you have cooked (pastuerized-that means boiled) milk going into a kli shani. If the rov wants everybody to be able to drink the coffee, those that have a problem with this procedure can make their own or drink it at home. There is vort from the heim, a Roov that everybody likes is nisht ken roov. A Roov that nobody likes is nisht ken mensch.
I would like to ad the following anecdote. There is a shul in monsey that on Yomim noraim is very overcrowded, mostly by Litvishe viber that do not set foot place for the entire year. They block the stairs the lobby and the entances in such a fashion that men cannot get out of the main sanctuary, even the kohanim have a very difficult time getting out to wash for bircas kohanim. I asked the rov (A chasidisha, a tremendous Talmid chochim) and he replied: “The previous Rov, (who was also a tremendous talmid chochim) who knew what was going on, was not moicheh, and therefore I cannot be moicheh.

When the new rov feels that it’s his duty to micromanage the way Coffee had been made for 30 years according to a minority chumrah so that “everyone can drink the coffee.” I have to ask “Who is the ‘everyone’ that hasn’t been there in the last 30 years and obviously managed?” There is something to be said for respect for the minhagim of a place, especially if they are in concert with mainstream halacha.

By: crgo

crgo — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 08:34:10 +0000

I, too, finished reading wiyh tears in my eyes. All of you who went off on a tangent regarding the validity of chumros – please, treat yourselves to a soapbox (or a therapist) so you can work out your issues without cluttering the talkbacks.

By: kollelman1

kollelman1 — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:45:33 +0000

#19 – I couldnt agree more with your point. However you must realize that in each generation there are different obstacles, different challenges, and in different generations we have the efsharut to perform different mitzvot/humrot. For example today we are able to inspect greenery for bugs better than in past years. They didnt have suction devices, light boxes etc etc…You may say today why do we have to be so medakdek in something which probably was impossible to have done 100% years ago (since its still impossible today to do 100%)…In response ill tell you that in those days their shochatim were the most kadosh people possible. They surely didnt have issues like the monsey scandal etc…they would only eat meat from someone directly who they knew and trusted. Also, today I feel we need more humrot than previously to help our bond with boreh olam. In the past generations even the simple mans emunah was rock solid…today when theres so many challenges out there we need to further strengthen our bond with hashem…so while I agree with you that too many humrot are hard and sometimes can even be looked at as an annoyance, sometimes its necesary

By: YeshivaRodefKesef

YeshivaRodefKesef — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:55:58 +0000

I think the point of the story is that we should learn from an 85 yr old man (he should be maarich yomim) to respect Daas Torah. All the mechutzofim who are the first to bash rabbonim and daas torah should take mussar here and do tesuva.
But no, these azai ponim need to question this rovs reasoning (bec theyre presumabley smarter and more learned than Mr. G) and bash this rov here as well.

By: Blue Pinky

Blue Pinky — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:23:57 +0000

Something is wrong in this story. How could a Rov have said that coffee made according to some valid shitta could not be drunk by others? It is a derabonnon of maaseh shabbos and as such would be permitted to be drunk by those who are themselves not meikel(See PMG and MSB)

He obviously meant that people who are machmir with this chumra would not drink the coffee. Why not do it in a way that everyone would?

By: telegrok

telegrok — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:20:26 +0000

maybe a wrinkle is, what sort of chumrah affects everyone, and what sort of chumrah is “beneath the radar” – i.e., if the coffee issue involved use of an additional kli for pouring purposes, then that is an element that is transparent to the guy who drinks the coffee in the blatt room, since it affects only the fellow making the coffee, who must pour twice – and if the intent is to enable everyone to have a cup of joe during shiur, then why not

if the chumrah is one that we would be matztriach the tzibur (say, a kehilla in a place where cholov yisrael is not readily available and someone one day says, “OK, cholov yisrael only from now on”) – well, maybe that should raise some eyebrows

ultimately it’s up to the kehilla who hires the guy – if a rov’s approach is not consistent with his kehilla, he’ll know -

By: holykugel

holykugel — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:17:05 +0000

The reason why it tasted better because it was taster’s choice, dark roast special edition.