Comments on: Out Of The Mailbag – To YW Editor (Liberal Money Vs. Conservative Morals)

By: krunch

krunch — Mon, 12 May 2008 20:50:12 +0000

#28, illini07- your other posts were very informative and eloquent, but I think you are grossly mistaken with saying that a Rav is for your own matters of spiritual observance, while voting you’ll decide for yourself. The Rav, whomever he may be, as your spiritual guide is going to tell you if and how something partains to your spiritual growth or decline. If your Rav (and I think it is only right that you should ask him- he can say either way) should say that voting is something that effects spiritual observance, then even according to your reasoning it would be appropriate to ask him. In general (I think), most parts of our daily lives effect our spiritual observance, one way or the other- it’s the Rabbis whom we need to point out to us what effects us and how. Also, as elected officials effect the Jewish nation as a whole, then we should look to the rabbis’ guidance pertainting to matters of the Jewish people as a whole. Voting isn’t only about the individual.
#30- can you explain what exactly is wrong with the way America is now? The economy isn’t run by the government, and neither is gas prices (which democrats if anything would cause to go up with their environmental policies). We already know the two sides of the Iraq argument, so what exactly is messed up about the country that you think a new politician can fix based on his/her platform? (I hope you’re not for socialized medicine)

By: amhaaretz

amhaaretz — Mon, 12 May 2008 20:46:57 +0000

The liberals may not believe in legislating personal morals. However they have no qualms about legislating immorals that can trespass over my beliefs

By: halavai

halavai — Mon, 12 May 2008 20:43:03 +0000

Even though we live in E”Y, my husband and I do vote in American Presidential elections. We vote republican basically for all the reasons stated above. But please, let’s not conflate the Republican party with emes and Torahdik hashkafas.Firstly, they have their fair share of scandals and immoral practices, all politicians do and the problem is not likely to go away any time soon. Also, last I checked, there are no Torah sources that say that being a republican is the emesdik, torah way while being a democrat is heresy. There is no halacha that one must vote for a certain party. Let’s not forget that it was democrats who ended the intolerable situation whereby workplaces would fire those who refused to work on Shabbos, and ended the “blue laws”, which stipulated that businesses must be closed on Sundays (which was detrimental to Jews, as this forced them to keep the store closed for an extra day). True, at this time, the republicans seem to be the more “heimishe” party, and that is why most frum Jews, myself included, will vote for them. But it wasn’t always that way, and we cannot rely on it to continue forever, they are goyim to whom the Torah and Klal Yisrael mean nothing, and even if their values are more wholesome, they are not representative of HKBH or the Torah. They make mistakes, and implement bad, or even immoral policies too. We mustn’t disparage those who do lean more democratic, for the democrats are not incarnate evil any more than republicans are the ultimate good. I know many frum Jews in America who are very fed up with Bush and the big disaster he created in Iraq. Who are we to tell them that they must vote for a party they are fed up with? Since when is political affiliation a yardstick of frumkeit? (I refer specifically to American politics- in E”Y the situation is different) Only HKBH and His Torah are eternal and emes; the politicians, including the republicans, are self-interested and looking for cheap votes. They are but pawns in HKBH’s master plans.

By: lgbg

lgbg — Mon, 12 May 2008 19:51:40 +0000

for the democrats:
who exactly you planning on voting for?
1. Hilary- a smart woman, has some form of experience, yet do you think she knows how to run a country(she never even served in the army)?

2. Obama- an antisemite, his whole campaign is from Carter-who im sure all of you know is an antisemite himself. another thing exactly what experience does Obama have to serve as the leader of America?

not that i think McCain is the #1 choice for president, but no smart person would want to run America in the state its in now. but anythings better than the democrats!

By: amusedreader

amusedreader — Mon, 12 May 2008 19:36:39 +0000

Considering the hypocrisy displayed by a great deal of Republican politicians, I would never equate voting for them with voting for the more moral party! and #17, my impression is that illini07 was not personally questioning whether the modern orthodox are frum. He seemed to be commenting that, unfortunately a great deal of the posters on this website tend to do so.

By: deepthinker

deepthinker — Mon, 12 May 2008 18:44:32 +0000

I own a tape on which Rav Avigdor Miller, ZT”L, says plainly that all Jews shoul vote conservative Republican, because the Democrat party officially supports Toeva and abortion, while the Republican party officially takes the opposite position.

Yes, there are exceptions, but these are the official party positions, and when you join the party, you are officially endorsing their platform, unless you make it crystal clear that you don’t.

Just try to become a leader among the Democrats without supporting these positions.

Look at what happened to Sheldon Silver and Dov Hikind, who are personally Orthodox Jews, but who are overtly or covertly trying to appease the MushChaSim in their Democrat party, in order to further their political careers.

By: knocker

knocker — Mon, 12 May 2008 18:21:35 +0000

I heard that R’ Avigdor Miller held that one should vote Republican for the reasons mentioned by #10

By: saychel

saychel — Mon, 12 May 2008 18:13:54 +0000

#13 – Daas Torah cannot endorse anyone, just in case the other side wins….. Everyone has to use their saychel!

By: avremele

avremele — Mon, 12 May 2008 18:03:34 +0000

HGH”K Rav Avigdor Miller ZY”A made it abundantly clear years ago that it is ASSUR to vote for a candidate who supports chukei toieva in any form. For that reason many frum jews vote republican, because as a whole their morality is closer to our’s.

By: Joseph

Joseph — Mon, 12 May 2008 16:40:39 +0000

illini – I consider it disgraceful for you to question if modern orthodox jews are frum or not (or whether I consider them as such.) They do not need to be qualified as frum any more than you do.

Secondly, I would venture to say even MO Jews strongly vote Republican/conservative (even though you don’t.)