You’re welcome.

It’s nice to have some normal discourse.

So it seems then that we agree with the Rosh Yeshiva to whom you are close that teens belong in Yeshiva. (I’m also inferring from your quote of the conversation with him that he wouldn’t necessarily extend that to all older bochurim.) We also agree that older bochurim (20-25+) don’t necessrily have to be there.

So the question remains, why do the overwhelming majority of yeshivos and their respective Roshei Yeshivah not take action in that direction.

It’s not my agenda to suggest chas v’sholom that they don’t care or know. It’s just that we live in a very complicated society with an enormous volume of conflicting interests. Roshei yeshiva are humans too, and it can be very difficult to effect change.

So what it comes down to is this. If, as people like you and I suspect, we have a culture that is more reflective of social trends and inertia than of genuine Daas Torah, what can be done to enable the Rabbonim and Roshei yeshiva to speak their minds more freely.

Of course, my question presumes that they currently aren’t speaking their minds freely and clearly there are those who would disagree with me. But I have heard too many annecdotes (from people I believe are in a position to know) alledging that our Rabbonim and Roshei yeshivah feel powerless to change things notwithstanding their better judgement.

If that is true, it is a tragedy that threatens the integrity of our mesorah.

In every aspect of life we encounter tests. In the work place you receive performance reviews to determine you standing within the company. In college you have different tests. Since when does testing a student’s knowledge automatically equate to teens at risk? Are you people saying we should abandon every sort of test or challenge for a teenager because they might go off the derech? Tests are the least of the worries! If they had loving parents and families that support them and encourage them to succeed in any path they choose, even if he does not want to go to Kollel and attend college ( KEFIRAH!!), maybe they won’t need to rebel! If colleges have exams every few weeks in every course, why do you think a yeshiva should be different? Because the gedolim didn’t say so? Maybe if you approached a Rosh Yeshiva with this idea he might agree!

If Yeshvious & Kollel had exams, it might be a better way to root about bochurim who are not meant to sit and learn. This way yeshivous expenses go down and this bochur can not became an official Bal Hobos that supports the yeshiva. In the “Alter Haim”, even some Gedolim, were challenged to either excel in yeshiva or become an apprentice.
Not sitting in Kollel is not the end of the world.

So to #41 who said:

“Maybe in big (hefker) yeshivos where there are thousands of bochurim/yungerleit, and not a lot of supervision do you need tests. But do you think you know better then so many of our Gedolim (I’m talking now, not europe)?!”

That’s all I and others here are saying. We are saying that having hundreds of unsupervised “yeshiva-lite” who are NEVER tested, is a unproductive waste of time and resources. Not only is the mamon hekdesh of the Yeshivah being misappropriated but the valuable time of these young men is also being mismannaged relative to a more productive BALANCE they might achive in another setting.

Yes, I know, saying that perhaps not everone should be in Yeshivah full-time, all-the-time, means I think I know better than the Gedolim, etc. etc.

I would ask those who react that way one question.

How many gedolim have you actually had this conversation with in a setting where you are confident that you have gotten their true feelings on the topic? Have you actually heard from them, or are you just repeating what you THINK the gedolim believe based on the popular Yeshivishe reid?

Everyone loves ask whether the “hockers” know better than the gedolim. I concede that I don’t. But at the same time I’m not sure I know what the gedolim actually think. I don’t hear much from them. I only hear other hockers claiming to speak for them.