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	<title>Comments on: Agudath Israel Said to Oppose Hekhsher Tzedek</title>
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	<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html</link>
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		<title>By: cowdoc</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cowdoc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Number 15.
Scheita is one humane method of killing an animal. The animal MAY be rendered unconsious as quickly as using the captive bolt gun or electric stunning. The process leading up to scheita is not necessarily humane. Other methods of killing an animal that I mentioned before in  do not involve all of the pre slaughter preperation  that scheita does which stresses the animal.

I cannot warn enough not to label reasons for mitzvot. We do schieta because of belief not because of calling it the most humane way of slaughter. We do not eat pork because of belief not because of potential health hazards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Number 15.<br />
Scheita is one humane method of killing an animal. The animal MAY be rendered unconsious as quickly as using the captive bolt gun or electric stunning. The process leading up to scheita is not necessarily humane. Other methods of killing an animal that I mentioned before in  do not involve all of the pre slaughter preperation  that scheita does which stresses the animal.</p>
<p>I cannot warn enough not to label reasons for mitzvot. We do schieta because of belief not because of calling it the most humane way of slaughter. We do not eat pork because of belief not because of potential health hazards.</p>
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		<title>By: YNW</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[YNW]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RM&quot;A is arguably worse than RM&quot;D. Keep far away from him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RM&#8221;A is arguably worse than RM&#8221;D. Keep far away from him.</p>
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		<title>By: hassidicrambler</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99329</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hassidicrambler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99329</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t confuse different packaging labels. If the workers and the animals were treated nicely, then write THAT on the package, not a kosher symbol. If the food is kosher, that&#039;s when you write kosher. You don&#039;t write &quot;Contains No Peanuts&quot; or &quot;Organic&quot; on products because the workers were treated nicely. You just write what it is.

Cowdoc, what in the world are you talking about?  You think getting shot in the head with a bolt gun or electrocuted until unconscious isn&#039;t painful? Shechita as mandated in halacha is the most humane way to slaughter an animal, period. 

But if you want you can thank Agriprocessors for inventing the rotating pen. That&#039;s right. They are the ones leading the way in better industry practices, not all these big talkers full of hot air.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t confuse different packaging labels. If the workers and the animals were treated nicely, then write THAT on the package, not a kosher symbol. If the food is kosher, that&#8217;s when you write kosher. You don&#8217;t write &#8220;Contains No Peanuts&#8221; or &#8220;Organic&#8221; on products because the workers were treated nicely. You just write what it is.</p>
<p>Cowdoc, what in the world are you talking about?  You think getting shot in the head with a bolt gun or electrocuted until unconscious isn&#8217;t painful? Shechita as mandated in halacha is the most humane way to slaughter an animal, period. </p>
<p>But if you want you can thank Agriprocessors for inventing the rotating pen. That&#8217;s right. They are the ones leading the way in better industry practices, not all these big talkers full of hot air.</p>
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		<title>By: cowdoc</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cowdoc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The preparation of a cow for kosher slaughter is very stressful for the animal. It is cast on its back, or lifted up by its front legs prior to the cutting of the animal&#039;s neck. Non kosher slaughter is much less stressful, the animal may be shot in the head with a captive bolt gun or may be rendered unconscious with electrical shock. What these people from Hescher tzedek are saying is try to keep the pre-scheita stress to the minumum.

They are also saying that workers should be treated fairly. In summary they are not dealing with the issue of the animal from the time that the knife touches the neck (unless not killed and then it must be quickly and humanely killed by other means).

I think that all G_d fearing Jews should welcome this innovation. If they cannot accept it because of the fact that it is initiated by the Conservative movement, then let the orthodox institutions adopt these measures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The preparation of a cow for kosher slaughter is very stressful for the animal. It is cast on its back, or lifted up by its front legs prior to the cutting of the animal&#8217;s neck. Non kosher slaughter is much less stressful, the animal may be shot in the head with a captive bolt gun or may be rendered unconscious with electrical shock. What these people from Hescher tzedek are saying is try to keep the pre-scheita stress to the minumum.</p>
<p>They are also saying that workers should be treated fairly. In summary they are not dealing with the issue of the animal from the time that the knife touches the neck (unless not killed and then it must be quickly and humanely killed by other means).</p>
<p>I think that all G_d fearing Jews should welcome this innovation. If they cannot accept it because of the fact that it is initiated by the Conservative movement, then let the orthodox institutions adopt these measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Baal Boose</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99213</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Baal Boose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99213</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree much needs to be fixed in the kashrus industry. (Especially when hechsherim bully companies and when they announce &quot;we have withdrawn our hechsher&quot; even if it was only non-payment of bills, or went somewhere else).
HOWEVER, the problem with Heschsher tzedek is it seems to me their main purpose is to be an alternative to the regular kosher. They are searching for a niche.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree much needs to be fixed in the kashrus industry. (Especially when hechsherim bully companies and when they announce &#8220;we have withdrawn our hechsher&#8221; even if it was only non-payment of bills, or went somewhere else).<br />
HOWEVER, the problem with Heschsher tzedek is it seems to me their main purpose is to be an alternative to the regular kosher. They are searching for a niche.</p>
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		<title>By: feivel</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99194</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[feivel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#10

&quot;How about focusing on being true bnei torah and that includes how we treat the R”SO creations (yes animals too)!!!! &quot;

a true Bnei Torah will always capitalize Torah out of his great love and respect for it. (probably a typo on your part.)

a true Bnei Torah will treat the R&quot;SO creations exactly the way the R&quot;SO has told us to treat them, through his Torah, Nveim, our leaders the Sages of the Talmud, and our Gedolim today, who have received the Mesorah from Har Sinai, father to son.
not through those today who &quot;poskin&quot; based on &quot;feeling good&quot; about morality, and political correctness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10</p>
<p>&#8220;How about focusing on being true bnei torah and that includes how we treat the R”SO creations (yes animals too)!!!! &#8221;</p>
<p>a true Bnei Torah will always capitalize Torah out of his great love and respect for it. (probably a typo on your part.)</p>
<p>a true Bnei Torah will treat the R&#8221;SO creations exactly the way the R&#8221;SO has told us to treat them, through his Torah, Nveim, our leaders the Sages of the Talmud, and our Gedolim today, who have received the Mesorah from Har Sinai, father to son.<br />
not through those today who &#8220;poskin&#8221; based on &#8220;feeling good&#8221; about morality, and political correctness.</p>
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		<title>By: tzippi</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tzippi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#4 - one of the most sensible things I&#039;ve heard on the matter is this: why stop with food? Why not a hechsher tzedek on all manner of consumer goods? That they&#039;re focusing on food leads one to believe there&#039;s an agenda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#4 &#8211; one of the most sensible things I&#8217;ve heard on the matter is this: why stop with food? Why not a hechsher tzedek on all manner of consumer goods? That they&#8217;re focusing on food leads one to believe there&#8217;s an agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: Left Brooklyn</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Left Brooklyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Frum, Charedi, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, post-denominational, all Jews ... has anyone stopped to think if the R&quot;SO cares? How about focusing on being true bnei torah and that includes how we treat the R&quot;SO creations (yes animals too)!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frum, Charedi, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, post-denominational, all Jews &#8230; has anyone stopped to think if the R&#8221;SO cares? How about focusing on being true bnei torah and that includes how we treat the R&#8221;SO creations (yes animals too)!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: robroy560</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99168</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[robroy560]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Follow the money... these guys probbaly don&#039;t want competition.  Remember, more kosher is purchased by non-Jews than Jews (excluding meat and chicken).  If you don&#039;t believe me, go to a Whole Foods Market and Trader Joe&#039;s; they are very public about offering kosher. I have many non-Jewish friends who look for hechshers on products because they are into health foods.  

Many companies sign up for kosher certification because they know they can capture the kosher, Muslim, and health markets.  I met a guy that started a gelatto company.  He&#039;s Catholic, and was adamant about getting the OU to supervise his business.  Why?  He knows that will make it easier for him to get into a variety of markets.   

But kosher certification in itself is arguablly a dirty business.  You didn&#039;t have a va&#039;ad in many European towns prior to WW2.  You were frum, and you were trusted.  The local rav ate by you, and that was fine for the community.  Today it&#039;s a big problem because we have seen frum people cheat (remember Monsey?), and we have other questionable practices when some like to cut corners.  

On the other hand, we also see extortion tactics by the va&#039;ads in certain locations.  We also forget to make sure if it&#039;s kosher first before we obsess over which holier than though rabbi certifies it.  What do I mean?  If a guy opens a business and hires a competent mashgeach, he will be slandered if he does not pay for the va&#039;ad.  Rabbis will say &quot;I&#039;m not saying it is not kosher, but I wouldn&#039;t eat there.&quot;   

If the companies see a profit to be made with this extra certification, good for them.  Otherwise it will probably fail.

BTW, I have a friend who has smicha and will not eat products with more than one hechser.  Why?  If it needs more than one, it was probably a questionable product to start with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Follow the money&#8230; these guys probbaly don&#8217;t want competition.  Remember, more kosher is purchased by non-Jews than Jews (excluding meat and chicken).  If you don&#8217;t believe me, go to a Whole Foods Market and Trader Joe&#8217;s; they are very public about offering kosher. I have many non-Jewish friends who look for hechshers on products because they are into health foods.  </p>
<p>Many companies sign up for kosher certification because they know they can capture the kosher, Muslim, and health markets.  I met a guy that started a gelatto company.  He&#8217;s Catholic, and was adamant about getting the OU to supervise his business.  Why?  He knows that will make it easier for him to get into a variety of markets.   </p>
<p>But kosher certification in itself is arguablly a dirty business.  You didn&#8217;t have a va&#8217;ad in many European towns prior to WW2.  You were frum, and you were trusted.  The local rav ate by you, and that was fine for the community.  Today it&#8217;s a big problem because we have seen frum people cheat (remember Monsey?), and we have other questionable practices when some like to cut corners.  </p>
<p>On the other hand, we also see extortion tactics by the va&#8217;ads in certain locations.  We also forget to make sure if it&#8217;s kosher first before we obsess over which holier than though rabbi certifies it.  What do I mean?  If a guy opens a business and hires a competent mashgeach, he will be slandered if he does not pay for the va&#8217;ad.  Rabbis will say &#8220;I&#8217;m not saying it is not kosher, but I wouldn&#8217;t eat there.&#8221;   </p>
<p>If the companies see a profit to be made with this extra certification, good for them.  Otherwise it will probably fail.</p>
<p>BTW, I have a friend who has smicha and will not eat products with more than one hechser.  Why?  If it needs more than one, it was probably a questionable product to start with.</p>
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		<title>By: akuperma</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22674/agudath-israel-said-to-oppose-hekhsher-tzedek.html#comment-99164</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[akuperma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:30:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22674#comment-99164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reply to #4

So the conservatives insist that employers not object to women, non-Shomer Shabbos Jews, or even non-Jews bewing employed as slaughterers. Or they are happy with a restaurant serving meat and milk, as long as they aren&#039;t cooked together (and of course, chicken and milk is no problem, even the mishna discusses it as a humrah). Nothing is wrong with boycotting firms whose policies you object to,  but being &quot;politically correct&quot; isn&#039;t &quot;kosher&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to #4</p>
<p>So the conservatives insist that employers not object to women, non-Shomer Shabbos Jews, or even non-Jews bewing employed as slaughterers. Or they are happy with a restaurant serving meat and milk, as long as they aren&#8217;t cooked together (and of course, chicken and milk is no problem, even the mishna discusses it as a humrah). Nothing is wrong with boycotting firms whose policies you object to,  but being &#8220;politically correct&#8221; isn&#8217;t &#8220;kosher&#8221;.</p>
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