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	<title>Comments on: Agriprocessors Puts Barak Obama In The &#8216;Meat-Grinder&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Tikva Way</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tikva Way]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[# 11 said ... 

&quot;They lied about their immigration status,&quot;

When asked, most were quite honest and admitted they were in the country illegally.

&quot; and they lied about their age.&quot;

There has been testimoney reported in newspapers and before members of Congress that underage workers who told supervisors their true ages when they were asked.

&quot; ...How is that Agri’s fault? An employer has no responsibility to investigate whether his employees are lying to him, ...&quot;  

Sorry, but an employer has a responsibility to make a good faith effort to determine if a potential employee is lying. Particulary so, when the company has been warned multiple times that social security numbers submitted by employees do not match Federal records. That is why responsible firms that employ large numbers of workers in low skill jobs pay to have the ICE e-varification system installed and check all employees through this sytem before hiring them. Agri didn&#039;t do this - until after the raid. 
Sorta like closing the barn door, after the horses have left.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># 11 said &#8230; </p>
<p>&#8220;They lied about their immigration status,&#8221;</p>
<p>When asked, most were quite honest and admitted they were in the country illegally.</p>
<p>&#8221; and they lied about their age.&#8221;</p>
<p>There has been testimoney reported in newspapers and before members of Congress that underage workers who told supervisors their true ages when they were asked.</p>
<p>&#8221; &#8230;How is that Agri’s fault? An employer has no responsibility to investigate whether his employees are lying to him, &#8230;&#8221;  </p>
<p>Sorry, but an employer has a responsibility to make a good faith effort to determine if a potential employee is lying. Particulary so, when the company has been warned multiple times that social security numbers submitted by employees do not match Federal records. That is why responsible firms that employ large numbers of workers in low skill jobs pay to have the ICE e-varification system installed and check all employees through this sytem before hiring them. Agri didn&#8217;t do this &#8211; until after the raid.<br />
Sorta like closing the barn door, after the horses have left.</p>
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		<title>By: veryinteresting</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99244</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[veryinteresting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#6, and Bush has had Abbas, an arafat in a suit wanting sharing the same goals, in the White House.  So what is your point?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6, and Bush has had Abbas, an arafat in a suit wanting sharing the same goals, in the White House.  So what is your point?</p>
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		<title>By: Tikva Way</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tikva Way]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From the Des Moines Register editorial today:

Accept invitation, governor: Drop in on Agriprocessors
The Register&#039;s editorial • August 27, 2008


Agriprocessors Inc. is located in the small town of Postville. But the meatpacking plant has been an embarrassment to the entire state of Iowa. It has become known nationwide for an immigration raid, documented safety violations and allegations of abuse, child-labor violations and falsification of documents. People must be wondering what the heck is going on in this state.

So it was appropriate for Gov. Chet Culver to address the plant in an essay on the opinion pages of this newspaper Sunday. A governor has the ability to send a broad message about what&#039;s acceptable and not acceptable in this state.


And send a message he did.

&quot;There will be no industrial &#039;jungles&#039; in Iowa on my watch,&quot; he wrote, referring to Upton Sinclair&#039;s 1906 novel describing the Chicago stockyards. He made clear he expects all Iowa workers to be treated fairly and their workplaces to be safe.

Agriprocessors responded by inviting the governor to come for a visit. He was encouraged to chat with everyone from the town mayor to the &quot;happy employees&quot; at the plant.

Culver should visit - unannounced. And he should take along a few other people, namely state inspectors.

State records show Agriprocessors officials repeatedly refused to allow inspectors with Iowa&#039;s Occupational Safety and Health Administration in the plant. When inspectors are denied admission, they seek a court warrant, which may take hours or days to obtain. The result is that a plant has time to clean up, if need be.

Now that Agriprocessors has extended an invitation to the highest-ranking official in the state, they shouldn&#039;t mind if a few other government workers tag along.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Des Moines Register editorial today:</p>
<p>Accept invitation, governor: Drop in on Agriprocessors<br />
The Register&#8217;s editorial • August 27, 2008</p>
<p>Agriprocessors Inc. is located in the small town of Postville. But the meatpacking plant has been an embarrassment to the entire state of Iowa. It has become known nationwide for an immigration raid, documented safety violations and allegations of abuse, child-labor violations and falsification of documents. People must be wondering what the heck is going on in this state.</p>
<p>So it was appropriate for Gov. Chet Culver to address the plant in an essay on the opinion pages of this newspaper Sunday. A governor has the ability to send a broad message about what&#8217;s acceptable and not acceptable in this state.</p>
<p>And send a message he did.</p>
<p>&#8220;There will be no industrial &#8216;jungles&#8217; in Iowa on my watch,&#8221; he wrote, referring to Upton Sinclair&#8217;s 1906 novel describing the Chicago stockyards. He made clear he expects all Iowa workers to be treated fairly and their workplaces to be safe.</p>
<p>Agriprocessors responded by inviting the governor to come for a visit. He was encouraged to chat with everyone from the town mayor to the &#8220;happy employees&#8221; at the plant.</p>
<p>Culver should visit &#8211; unannounced. And he should take along a few other people, namely state inspectors.</p>
<p>State records show Agriprocessors officials repeatedly refused to allow inspectors with Iowa&#8217;s Occupational Safety and Health Administration in the plant. When inspectors are denied admission, they seek a court warrant, which may take hours or days to obtain. The result is that a plant has time to clean up, if need be.</p>
<p>Now that Agriprocessors has extended an invitation to the highest-ranking official in the state, they shouldn&#8217;t mind if a few other government workers tag along.</p>
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		<title>By: akuperma</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[akuperma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to #10 (reL ICE raid)

Everyone in the goyish world is talking about it 
but it doesn&#039;t affect the cost of beef in Boro Park, so who cares. One issue in the Agriprocessors  is how kosher food can be produced (our problem), and the other is United States policy towards hard-working immigrants who can&#039;t get government permission to stay in the United States, but whose labors are sorely needed by American business (only our problem to the extent we are citizens with a stake in America&#039;s future)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to #10 (reL ICE raid)</p>
<p>Everyone in the goyish world is talking about it<br />
but it doesn&#8217;t affect the cost of beef in Boro Park, so who cares. One issue in the Agriprocessors  is how kosher food can be produced (our problem), and the other is United States policy towards hard-working immigrants who can&#8217;t get government permission to stay in the United States, but whose labors are sorely needed by American business (only our problem to the extent we are citizens with a stake in America&#8217;s future)</p>
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		<title>By: samuelbilner</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[samuelbilner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To #9. READ the charges. If the employers was not found to have committed any crimes, why assume they must&#039;ve?? My point here anyways is different. Barak Obama apparently reads blogs or elsehow hears conspiracy stories about Yidden, and believes them. He probably believes in the protocols, kosher mafia, mossad 9/11 etc. That is petty scary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To #9. READ the charges. If the employers was not found to have committed any crimes, why assume they must&#8217;ve?? My point here anyways is different. Barak Obama apparently reads blogs or elsehow hears conspiracy stories about Yidden, and believes them. He probably believes in the protocols, kosher mafia, mossad 9/11 etc. That is petty scary.</p>
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		<title>By: Milhouse</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Milhouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 02:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Tikva Way&quot;, the arrest of a small group of liars doesn&#039;t prove anything about Agri.  They lied about their immigration status, and they lied about their age.  How is that Agri&#039;s fault?  An employer has no responsibility to investigate whether his employees are lying to him, and giving him false documents.  He&#039;s entitled to take them at their word and their documents at face value, even if he suspects that among all his employees surely there must be at least some who are less than 100% honest; it&#039;s none of his business to check.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Tikva Way&#8221;, the arrest of a small group of liars doesn&#8217;t prove anything about Agri.  They lied about their immigration status, and they lied about their age.  How is that Agri&#8217;s fault?  An employer has no responsibility to investigate whether his employees are lying to him, and giving him false documents.  He&#8217;s entitled to take them at their word and their documents at face value, even if he suspects that among all his employees surely there must be at least some who are less than 100% honest; it&#8217;s none of his business to check.</p>
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		<title>By: computerinvestigator</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[computerinvestigator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it amazing that no one is talking about the ICE raid in Mississippi tiday where 600 people were detained. Talk about a double standard.

ICE: Nearly 600 detained in Miss. plant raid
By HOLBROOK MOHR

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92Q6K480


Earlier article:

ICE raids Miss. plant seeking illegal workers
By HOLBROOK MOHR

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92PSLLO1]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it amazing that no one is talking about the ICE raid in Mississippi tiday where 600 people were detained. Talk about a double standard.</p>
<p>ICE: Nearly 600 detained in Miss. plant raid<br />
By HOLBROOK MOHR</p>
<p><a href="http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92Q6K480" rel="nofollow">http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92Q6K480</a></p>
<p>Earlier article:</p>
<p>ICE raids Miss. plant seeking illegal workers<br />
By HOLBROOK MOHR</p>
<p><a href="http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92PSLLO1" rel="nofollow">http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jO9WZoMijd4RZonKDKU4OabjtjkgD92PSLLO1</a></p>
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		<title>By: veryinteresting</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[veryinteresting]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#8, are you serious?  You state that 300 arrests were made and not one against the company as if the say the company is not culpable or even a factor in this whole mess?  Agriprocessors got a break in  that the focus of the raid was on the people Agriproccesors personnel department hired, who turned out to be unfit for employment.  

iib is not wrong and if some of the posters were not personally embarassed, as Jews, they would not be so defensive and take offense to his sensible view of the facts.  I think a truly strong Jew is one that can face the facts and shortcomings that occur and not be ashamed that it will look bad to the goyim so they get defensive, as if they were knocked down from some pedestal that is more gaiva than genuine, true blue, loyalty.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8, are you serious?  You state that 300 arrests were made and not one against the company as if the say the company is not culpable or even a factor in this whole mess?  Agriprocessors got a break in  that the focus of the raid was on the people Agriproccesors personnel department hired, who turned out to be unfit for employment.  </p>
<p>iib is not wrong and if some of the posters were not personally embarassed, as Jews, they would not be so defensive and take offense to his sensible view of the facts.  I think a truly strong Jew is one that can face the facts and shortcomings that occur and not be ashamed that it will look bad to the goyim so they get defensive, as if they were knocked down from some pedestal that is more gaiva than genuine, true blue, loyalty.</p>
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		<title>By: samuelbilner</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[samuelbilner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to ib... can you read this letter? bha&#039;s statement/accusation looks like he reads blogs like this and other antisemitic blogs where people can spout whatever they want and jump on stories like this to blacken the name of Jewish businesses and people, and that he believes and absorbs what he reads.

Any charge by fbi or doj ends with this statement &quot;A complaint contains allegations that a defendant has committed a crime. Every defendant is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. &quot;

Here is the latest press release I found, note that there are no complaints against the company at all.



Date: June 10, 2008

300 NOW CONVICTED AND SENTENCED FOLLOWING MAY ARRESTS IN POSTVILLE 
Convictions Come From Largest Criminal Worksite Enforcement Operation in U.S. History

United States Attorney Matt M. Dummermuth announced today that 300 of the 389 people detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) on May 12, 2008, at Agriprocessors, Inc. in Postville, Iowa, have now pled guilty and been sentenced on federal felony charges.

“Based on the number of criminal convictions, this is the largest criminal worksite enforcement operation ever in the United States,” said Dummermuth. 

By May 22, 2008, 297 of those defendants had been sentenced. Since then, three other defendants – O****ka, 59, from Ukraine; Neh****pol, 23, from Guatemala; and Re***nez, 28, from Mexico – have pled guilty and been sentenced to 5 months’ imprisonment and 3 years’ supervised release for use of false identification to obtain employment after admitting the use of an actual person’s identity.

A fourth defendant, Osb******a, 25, from Mexico, has pled guilty to two criminal charges and is awaiting sentencing.

Four other cases, including two filed this week, are pending. As with any criminal case, a charge is merely an accusation and a defendant is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty.

The criminal convictions have resulted in the following dispositions:

• 233 defendants sentenced to 5 months’ prison and 3 years’ supervision for use of false identification to obtain employment after admitting the use of an actual person’s identity;

• 30 defendants sentenced to 5 months’ prison and 3 years’ supervision for false use of social security number or card after admitting the use of an actual person’s social security number;

• 8 defendants sentenced to 5 months’ prison and 1 year supervision for illegal reentry to the United States;

• 2 defendants sentenced to 12 months’ and a day prison and 3 years’ supervision for use of false identification to obtain employment after admitting the use of an actual person’s identity;

• 21 defendants sentenced to 5 years’ probation for use of false identification to obtain employment where identification did not belong to an actual person;

• 2 defendants sentenced to 5 years’ probation for false use of social security number or card where number did not belong to an actual person; and

• 4 defendants sentenced to 5 years’ probation for illegal reentry to the United States.

The investigation led by ICE is ongoing. Other agencies that have assisted in the investigation include the United States Postal Inspection Service; Iowa Department of Public Safety; Iowa Department of Transportation; Federal Bureau of Investigation; Internal Revenue Service – Criminal Investigations; and United States Department of Labor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to ib&#8230; can you read this letter? bha&#8217;s statement/accusation looks like he reads blogs like this and other antisemitic blogs where people can spout whatever they want and jump on stories like this to blacken the name of Jewish businesses and people, and that he believes and absorbs what he reads.</p>
<p>Any charge by fbi or doj ends with this statement &#8220;A complaint contains allegations that a defendant has committed a crime. Every defendant is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. &#8221;</p>
<p>Here is the latest press release I found, note that there are no complaints against the company at all.</p>
<p>Date: June 10, 2008</p>
<p>300 NOW CONVICTED AND SENTENCED FOLLOWING MAY ARRESTS IN POSTVILLE<br />
Convictions Come From Largest Criminal Worksite Enforcement Operation in U.S. History</p>
<p>United States Attorney Matt M. Dummermuth announced today that 300 of the 389 people detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) on May 12, 2008, at Agriprocessors, Inc. in Postville, Iowa, have now pled guilty and been sentenced on federal felony charges.</p>
<p>“Based on the number of criminal convictions, this is the largest criminal worksite enforcement operation ever in the United States,” said Dummermuth. </p>
<p>By May 22, 2008, 297 of those defendants had been sentenced. Since then, three other defendants – O****ka, 59, from Ukraine; Neh****pol, 23, from Guatemala; and Re***nez, 28, from Mexico – have pled guilty and been sentenced to 5 months’ imprisonment and 3 years’ supervised release for use of false identification to obtain employment after admitting the use of an actual person’s identity.</p>
<p>A fourth defendant, Osb******a, 25, from Mexico, has pled guilty to two criminal charges and is awaiting sentencing.</p>
<p>Four other cases, including two filed this week, are pending. As with any criminal case, a charge is merely an accusation and a defendant is presumed innocent until and unless proven guilty.</p>
<p>The criminal convictions have resulted in the following dispositions:</p>
<p>• 233 defendants sentenced to 5 months’ prison and 3 years’ supervision for use of false identification to obtain employment after admitting the use of an actual person’s identity;</p>
<p>• 30 defendants sentenced to 5 months’ prison and 3 years’ supervision for false use of social security number or card after admitting the use of an actual person’s social security number;</p>
<p>• 8 defendants sentenced to 5 months’ prison and 1 year supervision for illegal reentry to the United States;</p>
<p>• 2 defendants sentenced to 12 months’ and a day prison and 3 years’ supervision for use of false identification to obtain employment after admitting the use of an actual person’s identity;</p>
<p>• 21 defendants sentenced to 5 years’ probation for use of false identification to obtain employment where identification did not belong to an actual person;</p>
<p>• 2 defendants sentenced to 5 years’ probation for false use of social security number or card where number did not belong to an actual person; and</p>
<p>• 4 defendants sentenced to 5 years’ probation for illegal reentry to the United States.</p>
<p>The investigation led by ICE is ongoing. Other agencies that have assisted in the investigation include the United States Postal Inspection Service; Iowa Department of Public Safety; Iowa Department of Transportation; Federal Bureau of Investigation; Internal Revenue Service – Criminal Investigations; and United States Department of Labor.</p>
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		<title>By: Tikva Way</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/22682/agriprocessors-puts-barak-obama-in-the-meat-grinder.html#comment-99182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tikva Way]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=22682#comment-99182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Comment on JTA sounds accurate to me:
 
The arrest of 18 child workers at Agriprocessor during the May 12th immigration raid was prima facia evidence, that the company hired underage workers.
In defense of his client, Nathan Lewin is following the old obiter dictum: if the law and the facts are against you, pound the table.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment on JTA sounds accurate to me:</p>
<p>The arrest of 18 child workers at Agriprocessor during the May 12th immigration raid was prima facia evidence, that the company hired underage workers.<br />
In defense of his client, Nathan Lewin is following the old obiter dictum: if the law and the facts are against you, pound the table.</p>
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