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	<title>Comments on: Out Of The Mailbag: Danger In The Catskills!</title>
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		<title>By: notimportant</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-141794</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[notimportant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-141794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it is true that a parent molds their own child and you can think that someone from a solid home is less likely to &quot;sucumb&quot; to these dangers but in reality a parent can only provide a certain amount for there child. they can protect them when they are with them, and they can prepare them for when they leave the house. But they cannot prepare them for every single situation! and it is extremly tempting and easy for anyone to sucumb to these dangers because these children are just beginging to experience the real world.parents can only do a certain amount so please do not blame the parents. it is a community problem and it is easy to say &quot;it is the parents fault&quot; until you are the parent!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is true that a parent molds their own child and you can think that someone from a solid home is less likely to &#8220;sucumb&#8221; to these dangers but in reality a parent can only provide a certain amount for there child. they can protect them when they are with them, and they can prepare them for when they leave the house. But they cannot prepare them for every single situation! and it is extremly tempting and easy for anyone to sucumb to these dangers because these children are just beginging to experience the real world.parents can only do a certain amount so please do not blame the parents. it is a community problem and it is easy to say &#8220;it is the parents fault&#8221; until you are the parent!</p>
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		<title>By: Turkeyneck</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139197</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Turkeyneck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[dontbestupid , I guess it&#039;s the stupid in your name talking!
Nobody said my kids live in a world of no yetzer hara, and belive me, I have tons of experience with boys, girls and married ppl from all walks of life.
I am also a human being who clearly remembers being a teenager and the nisyonos I had.
And the above is how I know I am right.
I had parents who raised me the way I described above, and therefore I was able o withstand the nisyonos, and to know the difference between innocent fun and dangerous fun.
And I knew the cheshbonos of why it wasn&#039;t worth going for the illicit fun even if it seemed a little more exciting than the kosher fun.
Along with the love and attention and self-confidence my parents instilled in me, they also halped me attain a little Yiras Shamayim, not a ton, I&#039;m no Tzaddik, but enough so I could withstand the challenges.
And with proper preparation, one can always withstand challenges.
Your comment about Hashem running the world is incredibly foolish; of course he runs the world, which is why we are always able to beat the Yetzer Hara, you somehow think it means that there are some challenges that are unbeatable because &quot;Hey, Hashem runs the world&quot;.
The ONLY thing we as human beings can do in this world is make good choices, execise Bechira, that&#039;s the one thing Hashem does not run. But he does only place us in situations where we can choose correctly.
I restate my promise, raise your kids correctly, and they will make the right choices.

And PS, correctly doesn&#039;t mean always pushing chumros, an occasional kosher video, in moderation and with parental oversight, is often the exact right decision.
Hatzlacha to everyone...and don&#039;t let people fool you, how your kids turn out is very much up to you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dontbestupid , I guess it&#8217;s the stupid in your name talking!<br />
Nobody said my kids live in a world of no yetzer hara, and belive me, I have tons of experience with boys, girls and married ppl from all walks of life.<br />
I am also a human being who clearly remembers being a teenager and the nisyonos I had.<br />
And the above is how I know I am right.<br />
I had parents who raised me the way I described above, and therefore I was able o withstand the nisyonos, and to know the difference between innocent fun and dangerous fun.<br />
And I knew the cheshbonos of why it wasn&#8217;t worth going for the illicit fun even if it seemed a little more exciting than the kosher fun.<br />
Along with the love and attention and self-confidence my parents instilled in me, they also halped me attain a little Yiras Shamayim, not a ton, I&#8217;m no Tzaddik, but enough so I could withstand the challenges.<br />
And with proper preparation, one can always withstand challenges.<br />
Your comment about Hashem running the world is incredibly foolish; of course he runs the world, which is why we are always able to beat the Yetzer Hara, you somehow think it means that there are some challenges that are unbeatable because &#8220;Hey, Hashem runs the world&#8221;.<br />
The ONLY thing we as human beings can do in this world is make good choices, execise Bechira, that&#8217;s the one thing Hashem does not run. But he does only place us in situations where we can choose correctly.<br />
I restate my promise, raise your kids correctly, and they will make the right choices.</p>
<p>And PS, correctly doesn&#8217;t mean always pushing chumros, an occasional kosher video, in moderation and with parental oversight, is often the exact right decision.<br />
Hatzlacha to everyone&#8230;and don&#8217;t let people fool you, how your kids turn out is very much up to you.</p>
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		<title>By: dontbestupid</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dontbestupid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to rabbi turkeyneck:I really think its the turkey in you thats talking how could you possibly promise that if you follow these guidlines you will have success with you children do you realize that hashem runs the world and you cant possibly fullfill every childs needs every child is different and you can never know what the childs taavos really are and the child might not even realize it himself.You are living in an imaginary niave world and I hope that your kids really grow up to be yaaray shamayim to a level where they are also living in a perfect world a world with no yaatzer harah]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to rabbi turkeyneck:I really think its the turkey in you thats talking how could you possibly promise that if you follow these guidlines you will have success with you children do you realize that hashem runs the world and you cant possibly fullfill every childs needs every child is different and you can never know what the childs taavos really are and the child might not even realize it himself.You are living in an imaginary niave world and I hope that your kids really grow up to be yaaray shamayim to a level where they are also living in a perfect world a world with no yaatzer harah</p>
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		<title>By: lamdin1</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lamdin1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, #74 I heard about Ohr Naava. They do wonderful,exemplary and  extremely necessary work, with girls. They are willing to go that extra mile at great expense to make sure that girls stay out of trouble and have a &#039;Kosher&quot; outlet in the Catskills as well as in New York City. Rabbi Zecharya Wallerstein the director of Ohr Naava should be lauded and supported. I heard from girls that this past Motzei Shabbos was amazing.  Much continued success and Siata Dishmaya!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, #74 I heard about Ohr Naava. They do wonderful,exemplary and  extremely necessary work, with girls. They are willing to go that extra mile at great expense to make sure that girls stay out of trouble and have a &#8216;Kosher&#8221; outlet in the Catskills as well as in New York City. Rabbi Zecharya Wallerstein the director of Ohr Naava should be lauded and supported. I heard from girls that this past Motzei Shabbos was amazing.  Much continued success and Siata Dishmaya!</p>
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		<title>By: avivit</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[avivit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a representative of Ohr Naava - I couldnt agree more with #73! These &quot;good&quot; kids are the reason we created our Motzei Shabbos program in Kiamesha Lanes - where we rent out the bowling alley exclusively for girls - specifically so that they don&#039;t get lured into other things and because they need a place to be ..to go..to do something fun, an OUTLET, which as #73 mentioned, they are DESPERATE for. We provide KOSHER fun. Last Motzei Shabbos we had over 250 girls from ALL walks of life who had a blast, eating pizza, dancing and singing together and bowling of course! All in a discretely supervised environment. Ohr Naava provides free shiurim and activities nightly in Brooklyn and we took upon ourselves the responsibility to take care of our girls while they&#039;re in the mountains - giving them something to do and keep them SAFE! for more info I can be reached at 718-853-6190 or avivit@ohrnaava.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a representative of Ohr Naava &#8211; I couldnt agree more with #73! These &#8220;good&#8221; kids are the reason we created our Motzei Shabbos program in Kiamesha Lanes &#8211; where we rent out the bowling alley exclusively for girls &#8211; specifically so that they don&#8217;t get lured into other things and because they need a place to be ..to go..to do something fun, an OUTLET, which as #73 mentioned, they are DESPERATE for. We provide KOSHER fun. Last Motzei Shabbos we had over 250 girls from ALL walks of life who had a blast, eating pizza, dancing and singing together and bowling of course! All in a discretely supervised environment. Ohr Naava provides free shiurim and activities nightly in Brooklyn and we took upon ourselves the responsibility to take care of our girls while they&#8217;re in the mountains &#8211; giving them something to do and keep them SAFE! for more info I can be reached at 718-853-6190 or <a href="mailto:avivit@ohrnaava.com">avivit@ohrnaava.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: rbsyid</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139049</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rbsyid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139049</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The comments on this article can be divided into 2 categories: parents who have experience with kids who test the waters; and parents whose kids are lemeles and BH do not know what trouble is.
To #1 and all those who claim that this writer did not raise her kids well if she is concerned, I must tell you that you have a long way to go in understanding today&#039;s world.

I have both type of kids and I can tell you that however much you show your exploring kid what the dangers are, he will want to find out for himself.
Anyone who thinks that a teenager who enjoys a bit of fun will not join a party out of curiosity is totally naive.
These kids spend the whole day babysitting other people&#039;s kids and by the end of the one or 2 weeks they are desperate for an outlet.
Then the text comes from a &quot;friend&quot; to join a little party and &quot;chill&quot;. Until they go there for the first time, they do not know what to expect.
Once they have arrived, peer pressure usually wins out and they find it hard and &quot;not cool&quot; to walk away. So they stay and even if they just watch they will see boys/girls getting high on alcohol and drugs and what usually follows is dancing etc...znus....
The kid is disgusted and cannot wait to get out of there, but something inside stirs and this lures them back to the next party. This time they are familiar with the routine and when asked to join a dance they accept the offer.
The third time they are waiting for the text message and dress up (down) for the occasion ....
What I am describing here is simply the techniques of the Yetzer Hora.
How did Benei Yisroel come to sin with Bnos Moav? Chazal say that outside the tents were old ladies dressed with headcovers and maybe face covers selling things. Once the men came to see what they were selling, the women told then that inside were much nicer items. Inside the tent were young girls dressed to kill and they seduced the men. Had they been on the outside, the men would have run away, but once they were &quot;in&quot; the tent and their interest had been tickled they were prey for the yetzer!
I am not sure that there is a way to prevent the kids going to the parties, but they should be well informed beforehand that these parties exist and should be told what goes on there. Warn them that those boys are not interested in a relationship however much they tell them how nice they look and how much they love them. They will probably not even recognize them the next day when they sober up.
They must be taught the difference between kosher fun and dangerous treif fun by telling them what the end results of the latter could be.
In addition, arrange as much entertainment for them for the evenings. Spend money on good games, kosher videos (yes!!! kosher videos!!!) and fun activities so that they will not be bored in the evenings.
Hashem Yaazor!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments on this article can be divided into 2 categories: parents who have experience with kids who test the waters; and parents whose kids are lemeles and BH do not know what trouble is.<br />
To #1 and all those who claim that this writer did not raise her kids well if she is concerned, I must tell you that you have a long way to go in understanding today&#8217;s world.</p>
<p>I have both type of kids and I can tell you that however much you show your exploring kid what the dangers are, he will want to find out for himself.<br />
Anyone who thinks that a teenager who enjoys a bit of fun will not join a party out of curiosity is totally naive.<br />
These kids spend the whole day babysitting other people&#8217;s kids and by the end of the one or 2 weeks they are desperate for an outlet.<br />
Then the text comes from a &#8220;friend&#8221; to join a little party and &#8220;chill&#8221;. Until they go there for the first time, they do not know what to expect.<br />
Once they have arrived, peer pressure usually wins out and they find it hard and &#8220;not cool&#8221; to walk away. So they stay and even if they just watch they will see boys/girls getting high on alcohol and drugs and what usually follows is dancing etc&#8230;znus&#8230;.<br />
The kid is disgusted and cannot wait to get out of there, but something inside stirs and this lures them back to the next party. This time they are familiar with the routine and when asked to join a dance they accept the offer.<br />
The third time they are waiting for the text message and dress up (down) for the occasion &#8230;.<br />
What I am describing here is simply the techniques of the Yetzer Hora.<br />
How did Benei Yisroel come to sin with Bnos Moav? Chazal say that outside the tents were old ladies dressed with headcovers and maybe face covers selling things. Once the men came to see what they were selling, the women told then that inside were much nicer items. Inside the tent were young girls dressed to kill and they seduced the men. Had they been on the outside, the men would have run away, but once they were &#8220;in&#8221; the tent and their interest had been tickled they were prey for the yetzer!<br />
I am not sure that there is a way to prevent the kids going to the parties, but they should be well informed beforehand that these parties exist and should be told what goes on there. Warn them that those boys are not interested in a relationship however much they tell them how nice they look and how much they love them. They will probably not even recognize them the next day when they sober up.<br />
They must be taught the difference between kosher fun and dangerous treif fun by telling them what the end results of the latter could be.<br />
In addition, arrange as much entertainment for them for the evenings. Spend money on good games, kosher videos (yes!!! kosher videos!!!) and fun activities so that they will not be bored in the evenings.<br />
Hashem Yaazor!!!</p>
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		<title>By: oiy ya yoiy</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139044</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oiy ya yoiy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[to #43 - 19 year old yeshiva bochur:
thank you so much for taking the time out of sharing your honest opinion about the situation as a whole! it is quite interesting to hear it from a teenage boy prospectus!!! i&#039;m sure it gave many parents an insight to this whole picture that much more! so, thanx again for your time and downright honest feelings and thoughts!  MUCH APPRECIATED! (i have an 18 year old son and your words have helped me!) may you have continued hatzlocha in all that you do! and i&#039;m proud of you that you followed what you knew your parents wanted you to do or didn&#039;t want you to do!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to #43 &#8211; 19 year old yeshiva bochur:<br />
thank you so much for taking the time out of sharing your honest opinion about the situation as a whole! it is quite interesting to hear it from a teenage boy prospectus!!! i&#8217;m sure it gave many parents an insight to this whole picture that much more! so, thanx again for your time and downright honest feelings and thoughts!  MUCH APPRECIATED! (i have an 18 year old son and your words have helped me!) may you have continued hatzlocha in all that you do! and i&#8217;m proud of you that you followed what you knew your parents wanted you to do or didn&#8217;t want you to do!</p>
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		<title>By: yeshiva11230</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139042</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yeshiva11230]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 04:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To #46: The yetzer hara is there to temp, true. It is the parent&#039;s responsibility to teach what temptation means and how it should be dealt with. Trying to hide from the yetzer hara is absurd. Anyone who says they have no yetzer hara is a fool. 

To #48: What does “alluring GOOD frum teenage boys and girls from the finest homes” even mean? Is your home &#039;better&#039; than someone elses? Who makes that decision except Hashem, and he&#039;s not printing it here. You also wrote this &quot;has caused disasters in some of the most prestigous families in klal yisroel&quot;. Most prestigious families? Again, where is this description of honor coming from? On what basis? We are ALL Jews, shomrei torah and mitzvos. How dare you use these types of nonsensical descriptions!! Why would the loss of ANY Jewish child matter more from any particular family?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To #46: The yetzer hara is there to temp, true. It is the parent&#8217;s responsibility to teach what temptation means and how it should be dealt with. Trying to hide from the yetzer hara is absurd. Anyone who says they have no yetzer hara is a fool. </p>
<p>To #48: What does “alluring GOOD frum teenage boys and girls from the finest homes” even mean? Is your home &#8216;better&#8217; than someone elses? Who makes that decision except Hashem, and he&#8217;s not printing it here. You also wrote this &#8220;has caused disasters in some of the most prestigous families in klal yisroel&#8221;. Most prestigious families? Again, where is this description of honor coming from? On what basis? We are ALL Jews, shomrei torah and mitzvos. How dare you use these types of nonsensical descriptions!! Why would the loss of ANY Jewish child matter more from any particular family?</p>
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		<title>By: YW Moderator-42</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139031</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[YW Moderator-42]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139031</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many people here have suggested getting the kids Kosher phones without texting. This will only help so much - chavra chvra is lei... if they have a friend in the colony who has texting or a friend&#039;s friend, the word will get to them, perhaps not as easily but it will. This is why it is important to make sure your child has a good group of friends. Encourage them to spend time with the good friends and strongly discourage the others.

The only solution is supervision. Kids in camp have counselors &quot;in charge of them&quot;, the camp administrators should make sure that someone is &quot;in charge of&quot; the counselors and younger staff, etc. This works well in camp environments. In bungalow colonies parents should be aware of what their children are up to at all times. If the parents are not there, don&#039;t send the kids alone, make sure someone is in charge of them, everyone must have supervision. Any parent who does not do this is evil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many people here have suggested getting the kids Kosher phones without texting. This will only help so much &#8211; chavra chvra is lei&#8230; if they have a friend in the colony who has texting or a friend&#8217;s friend, the word will get to them, perhaps not as easily but it will. This is why it is important to make sure your child has a good group of friends. Encourage them to spend time with the good friends and strongly discourage the others.</p>
<p>The only solution is supervision. Kids in camp have counselors &#8220;in charge of them&#8221;, the camp administrators should make sure that someone is &#8220;in charge of&#8221; the counselors and younger staff, etc. This works well in camp environments. In bungalow colonies parents should be aware of what their children are up to at all times. If the parents are not there, don&#8217;t send the kids alone, make sure someone is in charge of them, everyone must have supervision. Any parent who does not do this is evil.</p>
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		<title>By: yeshiva11230</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/36603/out-of-the-mailbag-danger-in-the-catskills.html#comment-139022</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yeshiva11230]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=36603#comment-139022</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I appreciate the compliments, for the record, I am the father of three FRUM adult children and a grandfather. 

As a teenager, I worked in the mountains and that is where I met my ayshis chayil, who was working in a bungalow colony camp as a counselor. I am well aware of what does and can go on in camps and bungalows. 

Most of the complaints I have read so far are about things to worry about with YOUNG children, which is NOT what working in a bungalow colony is about. The children who are working in camps or bungalow colonies are YOUNG ADULTS. They MUST be allowed to grow up. For those of you who think that there are no bad influences in camps or yeshivot and bais yakovs, let me shed some light on this: There are DRUGS and ALCOHOL in EVERY camp and yeshiva/bais yakov. There are NO exceptions to this. There are good and bad children in EVERY camp and yeshiva/bais yakov. There are NO exceptions to this. Its about time, that PARENTS take responsibilty for their children and not try to see who is going to be &#039;responsible&#039; for them. It&#039;s not the principals, the rebbeim, the teachers, the camp directors, counselors, or even Hashem who is responsible for them. YOU ARE!!!!!  Stop blaming cell phones, TV, computers, the internet, movies, books, magazines, billboards etc. Start acting like adults and teach your children and be responsible for them. You have to talk to them and LISTEN to them. You have to explain to them and not just ASSUR things to them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I appreciate the compliments, for the record, I am the father of three FRUM adult children and a grandfather. </p>
<p>As a teenager, I worked in the mountains and that is where I met my ayshis chayil, who was working in a bungalow colony camp as a counselor. I am well aware of what does and can go on in camps and bungalows. </p>
<p>Most of the complaints I have read so far are about things to worry about with YOUNG children, which is NOT what working in a bungalow colony is about. The children who are working in camps or bungalow colonies are YOUNG ADULTS. They MUST be allowed to grow up. For those of you who think that there are no bad influences in camps or yeshivot and bais yakovs, let me shed some light on this: There are DRUGS and ALCOHOL in EVERY camp and yeshiva/bais yakov. There are NO exceptions to this. There are good and bad children in EVERY camp and yeshiva/bais yakov. There are NO exceptions to this. Its about time, that PARENTS take responsibilty for their children and not try to see who is going to be &#8216;responsible&#8217; for them. It&#8217;s not the principals, the rebbeim, the teachers, the camp directors, counselors, or even Hashem who is responsible for them. YOU ARE!!!!!  Stop blaming cell phones, TV, computers, the internet, movies, books, magazines, billboards etc. Start acting like adults and teach your children and be responsible for them. You have to talk to them and LISTEN to them. You have to explain to them and not just ASSUR things to them.</p>
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