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	<title>Comments on: Just Like Sugar – KOSHER ALERT</title>
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		<title>By: hanavon</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hanavon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 19:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[mark, you&#039;re a mashgiach. you want to call it a kashrus professional?  fine, but you&#039;re paid to sit around so that someone doesn&#039;t feel like things aren&#039;t being watched.  you&#039;re not the rav that poskins the sheilos!  as i told you, give me a reason for your words or else dont say them! you cant just say &quot;oh, its got &#039;flavors&#039;, it needs a hechsher&quot;, you need to tell me why, in precise statements.
about eating a cold pig, why would anyone ever think thats ok?  the fact that that thought came into your head just shows that you dont even know the basics of the mechanics of halacha!
how foolish can someone be?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mark, you&#8217;re a mashgiach. you want to call it a kashrus professional?  fine, but you&#8217;re paid to sit around so that someone doesn&#8217;t feel like things aren&#8217;t being watched.  you&#8217;re not the rav that poskins the sheilos!  as i told you, give me a reason for your words or else dont say them! you cant just say &#8220;oh, its got &#8216;flavors&#8217;, it needs a hechsher&#8221;, you need to tell me why, in precise statements.<br />
about eating a cold pig, why would anyone ever think thats ok?  the fact that that thought came into your head just shows that you dont even know the basics of the mechanics of halacha!<br />
how foolish can someone be?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mark levin</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171268</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mark levin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hanavon,

I have a suggestion. If you dont understand why it needs a hechsher (and I already mentioned the flavors added which REQUIRE hashgocha) why not go out and eat a cold pig, after all according to your seriously krum thinking, it is cold so it must be ok.

I am telling you as a kashrus professional for almost 30 years that the item REQUIRES hashgocha.

Why not trust the people who are in the industry and who are in the know???  Do you have a that much of a problem with authority?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hanavon,</p>
<p>I have a suggestion. If you dont understand why it needs a hechsher (and I already mentioned the flavors added which REQUIRE hashgocha) why not go out and eat a cold pig, after all according to your seriously krum thinking, it is cold so it must be ok.</p>
<p>I am telling you as a kashrus professional for almost 30 years that the item REQUIRES hashgocha.</p>
<p>Why not trust the people who are in the industry and who are in the know???  Do you have a that much of a problem with authority?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ThenAgain</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171246</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ThenAgain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hanavon, if you are so overwhelmed with shailos I have a suggestion that will dramatically decrease the flow. Just post your real name here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hanavon, if you are so overwhelmed with shailos I have a suggestion that will dramatically decrease the flow. Just post your real name here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hanavon</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hanavon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[mark levin,

yet again, you speak with authority, but you cannot being any proof, logic, or reason for your words, and more importantly, you have no disproof of anything i&#039;ve said!
write a tshuva about it and get back to me.  we live in a world of laws and of reason, when you have none of the above to back your words, they&#039;re meaningless]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mark levin,</p>
<p>yet again, you speak with authority, but you cannot being any proof, logic, or reason for your words, and more importantly, you have no disproof of anything i&#8217;ve said!<br />
write a tshuva about it and get back to me.  we live in a world of laws and of reason, when you have none of the above to back your words, they&#8217;re meaningless</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mark levin</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171214</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mark levin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171214</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hanavon,

i have been a kashrus professional for 30 years &amp; i tell you it requires a hechsher. You have no idea what you are talking about!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hanavon,</p>
<p>i have been a kashrus professional for 30 years &amp; i tell you it requires a hechsher. You have no idea what you are talking about!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hanavon</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hanavon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[reboisai:

i realize that you all have valid points, and that we should always err on the side of caution, especially when it comes down to an issur, and i also realize that, while there are major problems in kashrus, and that some (although i think it&#039;s most) kashrus organizations use unethical tactics to increase the price of the hechsher, we need it, not to insure the kashrus, per se, but for reasons of keeping a community together.
you must understand that i look at things and ask, &quot;why should this be considered assur?&quot; and see how it can fit within the laws of kashrus, but the frumaks among us, who have created a culture where everyone wants to out-do each others chumras, look at things and say &quot;how can i say that theres a sheila here?&quot;
r&#039; moshe feinstein, z&#039;tz&#039;l, as well as the aruch ha&#039;shulchan say that everything has a chezkas heter, and if we see a problem, then there&#039;s a problem....we should not say that everything has a chezkas issur!  &quot;coicha d&#039;hetera adif&quot;.  
now when it comes to things produced in factories, i do realize that they consist of many different ingredients, made in many different factories and that the factories themselves may produce many different types of foodstuffs...but first let me explain that this is not new, there have been factories producing different types of foods all the way back to roman times, and we know from non jewish, jewish, talmudic etc literature that jews were eating things produced there.  we have the shach, in yoreh de&#039;ah saying that a certain type of vegetable that is produced alongside treife meat, drying on the same strings is muttar!  now if i came to your house with the shachs veggies, you would probably throw me out, but the truth is that it is kosher.
there is another thing, that b&#039;zman ha&#039;ze almost no one uses cast iron pots and pans, especially in factories!  they use stainless steel and aluminum, which have a din of &quot;shee&quot;, being smooth like glass, and they do not absorb any taste at all, this can be measured in your own home, by cooking a steak in a (restaurant quality) stainless steel pan, washing it out (with soap) and then cooking something with a light taste, like eggs or rice, and you will see that there is no taste.  this is similar to the shach, yoreh deah, regarding the use of an onion in a milchige miechul, which you later realize had been but with a fleishige knife, the shach says that you may taste the other half of the onion, and if it doesn&#039;t have a meat taste you can eat the milchige food with the onion.
i personally sent this sheila about the stainless steel to r willig who agreed with me, although he did say to be careful in case you use cast iron, and i personally asked r reuvein who did not disagree with it, but also cautioned about cast iron.
keep in mind that jews, for thousands of years have gone to non kosher restaurants (like the gemara in chullin, where the fellow did not wash netilas yedayim, and so they gave him non kosher food thinking he was a non jew), and even the yaavitz, who writes a tshuva about how he went to a non kosher restaurant to have coffee (if you read the tshuva, you&#039;ll see its not only coffee in the restaurant that&#039;s muttar) and even today, many european jews and many syrian jews will go to a non kosher restaurant to eat vegatarian...
lots not make things more complicated when they need not be.
as for lying about a hechsher, you are correct, they should be boycotted, but only for the geneivas daas, which is a big deal, but isnt an issue of non kosher food.
shkoiach reboisei.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>reboisai:</p>
<p>i realize that you all have valid points, and that we should always err on the side of caution, especially when it comes down to an issur, and i also realize that, while there are major problems in kashrus, and that some (although i think it&#8217;s most) kashrus organizations use unethical tactics to increase the price of the hechsher, we need it, not to insure the kashrus, per se, but for reasons of keeping a community together.<br />
you must understand that i look at things and ask, &#8220;why should this be considered assur?&#8221; and see how it can fit within the laws of kashrus, but the frumaks among us, who have created a culture where everyone wants to out-do each others chumras, look at things and say &#8220;how can i say that theres a sheila here?&#8221;<br />
r&#8217; moshe feinstein, z&#8217;tz&#8217;l, as well as the aruch ha&#8217;shulchan say that everything has a chezkas heter, and if we see a problem, then there&#8217;s a problem&#8230;.we should not say that everything has a chezkas issur!  &#8220;coicha d&#8217;hetera adif&#8221;.<br />
now when it comes to things produced in factories, i do realize that they consist of many different ingredients, made in many different factories and that the factories themselves may produce many different types of foodstuffs&#8230;but first let me explain that this is not new, there have been factories producing different types of foods all the way back to roman times, and we know from non jewish, jewish, talmudic etc literature that jews were eating things produced there.  we have the shach, in yoreh de&#8217;ah saying that a certain type of vegetable that is produced alongside treife meat, drying on the same strings is muttar!  now if i came to your house with the shachs veggies, you would probably throw me out, but the truth is that it is kosher.<br />
there is another thing, that b&#8217;zman ha&#8217;ze almost no one uses cast iron pots and pans, especially in factories!  they use stainless steel and aluminum, which have a din of &#8220;shee&#8221;, being smooth like glass, and they do not absorb any taste at all, this can be measured in your own home, by cooking a steak in a (restaurant quality) stainless steel pan, washing it out (with soap) and then cooking something with a light taste, like eggs or rice, and you will see that there is no taste.  this is similar to the shach, yoreh deah, regarding the use of an onion in a milchige miechul, which you later realize had been but with a fleishige knife, the shach says that you may taste the other half of the onion, and if it doesn&#8217;t have a meat taste you can eat the milchige food with the onion.<br />
i personally sent this sheila about the stainless steel to r willig who agreed with me, although he did say to be careful in case you use cast iron, and i personally asked r reuvein who did not disagree with it, but also cautioned about cast iron.<br />
keep in mind that jews, for thousands of years have gone to non kosher restaurants (like the gemara in chullin, where the fellow did not wash netilas yedayim, and so they gave him non kosher food thinking he was a non jew), and even the yaavitz, who writes a tshuva about how he went to a non kosher restaurant to have coffee (if you read the tshuva, you&#8217;ll see its not only coffee in the restaurant that&#8217;s muttar) and even today, many european jews and many syrian jews will go to a non kosher restaurant to eat vegatarian&#8230;<br />
lots not make things more complicated when they need not be.<br />
as for lying about a hechsher, you are correct, they should be boycotted, but only for the geneivas daas, which is a big deal, but isnt an issue of non kosher food.<br />
shkoiach reboisei.</p>
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		<title>By: Softwords</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171089</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Softwords]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171089</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to add to &gt;&gt; akuperma&#039;s &lt;&lt; words:

Sugar doesn&#039;t need a hechsher. It contains 1 ingredient, SUGAR!

The fact that this company recognized the need to add a hechsher to their multi-ingredient product in itself tells a lot. 

It will be interesting to know why there has not been a hechsher on their product since 12/31/08.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to add to &gt;&gt; akuperma&#8217;s &lt;&lt; words:</p>
<p>Sugar doesn&#039;t need a hechsher. It contains 1 ingredient, SUGAR!</p>
<p>The fact that this company recognized the need to add a hechsher to their multi-ingredient product in itself tells a lot. </p>
<p>It will be interesting to know why there has not been a hechsher on their product since 12/31/08.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jose</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171088</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 12:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Hanavon,

The fact that they posting forged kashrus certificates does not indicate to you that there may be a problem?  Even if it is an item that&quot;may&quot; normally not need a hechsher, don&#039;t you think forged certficates are worse then none at all?

As far as Kashrut.org, that is R Abadi&#039;s sons. The fact that they post items gives no one who is trully careful about kashrus any comfort. 

It has been many years since R Abadi has been accepted as a posek in Lakewood. Throwing out that he was from Lakewood without including all related details shows just where you are coming from.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Hanavon,</p>
<p>The fact that they posting forged kashrus certificates does not indicate to you that there may be a problem?  Even if it is an item that&#8221;may&#8221; normally not need a hechsher, don&#8217;t you think forged certficates are worse then none at all?</p>
<p>As far as Kashrut.org, that is R Abadi&#8217;s sons. The fact that they post items gives no one who is trully careful about kashrus any comfort. </p>
<p>It has been many years since R Abadi has been accepted as a posek in Lakewood. Throwing out that he was from Lakewood without including all related details shows just where you are coming from.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Moose613</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171087</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Moose613]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171087</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rabosai,
The bigger issue here is not whether or not this product requirews a hechsher. Many products do NOt, e.g. olive oil, coffe (unflavored), and tea.  The question of a forged hechsher is, or at least should be, a felony.  This is fraud at its worst, and much more disturbing than the other issue here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rabosai,<br />
The bigger issue here is not whether or not this product requirews a hechsher. Many products do NOt, e.g. olive oil, coffe (unflavored), and tea.  The question of a forged hechsher is, or at least should be, a felony.  This is fraud at its worst, and much more disturbing than the other issue here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: akuperma</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/47078/just-like-sugar-%e2%80%93-kosher-alert.html#comment-171083</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[akuperma]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 09:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=47078#comment-171083</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why wouldn&#039;t it need a hecksher? It appears to be a manufactured sugar substitute made from diverse inputs, unlike sugar (which arguably doesn&#039;t need a hecksher if you can be sure that what you are getting is pure cane sugar that was processed in a clean factory used for nothing else).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why wouldn&#8217;t it need a hecksher? It appears to be a manufactured sugar substitute made from diverse inputs, unlike sugar (which arguably doesn&#8217;t need a hecksher if you can be sure that what you are getting is pure cane sugar that was processed in a clean factory used for nothing else).</p>
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