Comments on: STAR-K Meets With Government Officials To Advocate Shabbos Compliant Water Meters

By: danielb43

danielb43 — Sun, 14 Aug 2011 20:09:21 +0000

#8,

As I already noted (comment #13), p’sik reisha d’lo nicha lei provides additional grounds to be lenient here, among other reasons. However, I don’t believe, absent other reasons to be lenient, that Rav Soloveichik would have been Matir a p’sik reisha d’lo nicha lei, because, besides for the Aruch, most Rishonim hold that p’sik reisha d’lo nicha lei is an issur d’Rabbanan.

By: danielb43

danielb43 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 15:16:22 +0000

#1,

Even for those who are Machmir regarding using “Shabbos Mode ovens” on Yom Tov, this case has additional grounds for leniency: it’s a davar she’eino miskavein and a p’sik reisha d’lo nicha lei.

By: rebmoish

rebmoish — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:52:06 +0000

6, 7 On yom tov one can increase the size of the flame which in turn is causing the meter to issue a new number(on digital meters).

By: yehudayona

yehudayona — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 14:12:22 +0000

The NYCDEP is using radio-transmitted water meter readings (at least in my neighborhood). They didn’t change my meter when they installed this, they simply added a doohickey that doesn’t have a display.

By: cherrybim

cherrybim — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 13:07:15 +0000

“So the question is, will the meters which are ultimately approved comply with the stipulations of these poskim as well?”

Who cares?!

By: Moose613

Moose613 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:40:05 +0000

Electric meters do run on Shabbos as there are always items in a typical house that draw electricity on Shabbos e.g. a refrigerastor, or a hot water pot.
The same with a gas meter especially in winter if you heat with gas.

By: Yanky55

Yanky55 — Fri, 12 Aug 2011 01:12:44 +0000

This would have to be considered a “psik raisha d’lo neecha lay”. Does anyone that turns on the faucet care that the meter is going on Shabbos? No. You would do it, meter or no meter.

R’ Yoshe Ber ZT”L was matir a “psik raisha d’lo neecha lay’ on Shabbos. It was the basis for his famous heter to use hot water on Shabbos. One does not care when the water that comes out of the hot water tank will refill. Will it refill immediately or if it will happen after Shabbos? This heter was obviously limited to small amounts that you might use to wash your hands or rinse off some dishes. Not to let the whole 50-60 gallon tank empty, because then it is guaranteed that the water will start to refill immediately.

By: nitpicker

nitpicker — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 21:08:18 +0000

to amjc
gas meters and electric meters are not a problem
because we don’t turn on the gas or electric on shabbos.
We do turn on the water faucet which would cause a change
in the meter display, possibly a problem. I say possibly,
only because for discussion purposes, it is a complex issue.
For actual practice, we consider it not allowed.

By: laytzonay hador omrim

laytzonay hador omrim — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:59:56 +0000

AMJC,
They differ in that you turn on and off your water on shabbos and yom tov while you DONT turn on and off your electric and gas, not exactly rocket science.

By: twisted

twisted — Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:34:00 +0000

one solution would be a “shabbos water” setup like some do in EY, draw all the water you need for shabbos, into say a 1500 liter or larger tank, and gravity feed it into the system. Of course you need the elevation, the structure to bear that kind of weight, and freeze protection for places that need it.