Comments on: Ten Commandments Dispute In Va. Headed To Federal Court

By: nfgo3

nfgo3 — Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:00:51 +0000

No. 5: It is you, not I, who is confused – more than a bit confused – about American history. The American Civil War started because of, among other things, a dispute over the right of slave holders to expand their holdings into the unsettled West. Abolitionists were comprised of two groups – religious abolitionists, and non-religious abolotionists. The latter group were concerned, in part, about the rights of Americans of modest means to settle the West without the use of slave labor – which they could not afford or compete with. Religious abolitionists were well-organized for 30-40 years before the start of the war, but they were only a small factor in the start of the war. As the war dragged on, the abolition of slavery – in Lincoln’s emancipation proclamation – was limited to the states in rebellion against the authority of the federal government. Following the war, the victorious North made permanent the abolition of slavery, as the victors considered slavery anathema to the spirit of the US Constitution and amended the Constitution to squarely and clearly address the slavery issue that the Founders were unable to settle, owing in part to the centrality of slavery to the wealth of many of the Founders.

Your understanding of religion in general, and Judaism in particular, as set forth in your comment, is also fuzzy. You write: “Had the [S]outh won, religio[n] would have been confined to how you believe and worship, independent of how you act towards other human beings (as it is in most of Europe – where religion doesn’t play a role in public policy).” This is the first I hear that the outcome of the Civil War altered the Torah or Christianity, or any other religion.

I cannot speak knowledgeably about Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists or animists, but religion as we Jews live it is not independent of how we act toward other human beings. Judaism is not just davening and tzitzis and kashrus and shemah, it is living righteously and with kindness toward all Hashem’s creations, including the nations not chosen. Slavery and rapacious greed, as embodied in the beliefs of the Southern planters, are not part of our religion. I suspect that most religions of the nations contain similar teachings, not necessarily founded on the revelations and commandments of Hashem at Mount Sinai, but they teach many of the behaviors that we Jews hold sacred.

And, lastly, you should consider boning up on European politics, where most parliaments contain blocks of elected representatives called “Christian” Democrats, “Christian” Socialists, and other political-relgious titles. Maybe you think the religious parties are on the wane, but they are not gone, they remain part of the political process, and they may wax sooner than you expect.

So, No. 5, have you been learning with Dave Hirsh?

By: akuperma

akuperma — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:17:03 +0000

#4- you are a bit confused about Americaqn history. The religious fanatics won the Civil War, defeating those who based their policy of supporting slavery on economics, sociology and anthropology (as then understood). Indeed, the abolition movement is the model for all subsequent movement trying to change policy for religious considerations. Had the south won, religious would have been confined to how you believe and worship, independent of how you act towards other human beings (as it is in most of Europe – where religion doesn’t play a role in public policy)

By: nfgo3

nfgo3 — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 15:02:11 +0000

Are the 10 Commandments as posted in the Giles County schools written in Hebrew or English? If they are not written in Hebrew, they are not “historical” documents. The problem with the display of the 10 Commandments, in any language, is well-expressed, probably unwittingly, by the Giles County student quoted in the article:

” ‘This is Giles County, and Christ is a big, big, big part of Giles County,’ said one student, according to court documents. ‘For those who don’t like it, go somewhere else.’ ” The student has not yet learned what it means to live in America under the US Constitution. Virginia and its southern neighbors fought a war over that misunderstanding, and they lost.

By: Moose613

Moose613 — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:36:36 +0000

Isn’t this similar to the case in Alabama a few years ago. Only the Alabama case involved a court house not a school.

By: akuperma

akuperma — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:45:22 +0000

It is highly unlikely that the Jewish version is at issue in the case. Most likely it is the Christian version, which has a somewhat different text. Based on the case in question, if they allow a copy of their “Ten commandments” they would also be allowed to require a copy of their “Lord’s prayer” (a basic Christian prayer that used to be recited in New York’s public schools, led by the teacher).

We should argue that it is permissable for the majority to insist on allowing their religion into the schools, provided the government provides funding for religious minorities, but that has never been the case in the United States.

By: Imanonov

Imanonov — Mon, 28 Nov 2011 10:42:21 +0000

Please remove the picture. Although it may not be forbidden al pi halocho, but it is wrong to show the “Shem Hameforesh”. Anyway some people might view this site in unclean places and then it’s assur.