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	<title>Comments on: More Violence &amp; Arrests In Beit Shemesh</title>
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		<title>By: AinOhdMilvado</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246723</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AinOhdMilvado]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246723</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#18 yael.e -

I do know Hebrew (thanks for your suggestion though, and DO pass it on to the pseudo-chareidim posting here, that support this chilul HaSh-m) and if someone in the video said that, I did NOT hear it.
BUT...
If you saw the interview with her it was VERY clear that this girl was SCARED TO DEATH of these thugs.  Even after the event her voice was still trembling.  There is NO way I believe for one second that she lifted ANYTHING!!!
She went in there INNOCENTLY to hang some flyers.  Her only crime was not realizing the kind of chayas that occupy the place.  

As #17 &quot;Avi K&quot; correctly said (above) &quot;She is most likely Sephardic (especially as she says that she grew up in Bet Shemesh) and used to the more live-and-let-live attitude in Sephardic shuls, where traditional Jews of varying degrees of observance mingle...&quot; WITHOUT attacking each other!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18 yael.e -</p>
<p>I do know Hebrew (thanks for your suggestion though, and DO pass it on to the pseudo-chareidim posting here, that support this chilul HaSh-m) and if someone in the video said that, I did NOT hear it.<br />
BUT&#8230;<br />
If you saw the interview with her it was VERY clear that this girl was SCARED TO DEATH of these thugs.  Even after the event her voice was still trembling.  There is NO way I believe for one second that she lifted ANYTHING!!!<br />
She went in there INNOCENTLY to hang some flyers.  Her only crime was not realizing the kind of chayas that occupy the place.  </p>
<p>As #17 &#8220;Avi K&#8221; correctly said (above) &#8220;She is most likely Sephardic (especially as she says that she grew up in Bet Shemesh) and used to the more live-and-let-live attitude in Sephardic shuls, where traditional Jews of varying degrees of observance mingle&#8230;&#8221; WITHOUT attacking each other!!!</p>
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		<title>By: anIsraeliYid</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246721</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[anIsraeliYid]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The following description of an encounter with the woman in question, which took place shortly after the incident, was posted on the &quot;Life in Israel&quot; blog, maintained by Rafi Goldmeir of Ramat Beit Shemesh.  Rafi is a Frum &quot;American Yeshivish&quot; man, and is honest and balanced in his posts.

&quot;I had a chance encounter, that is as much as any encounter can be marked as chance, with Natalie Mashiach yesterday, shortly after she was nearly lynched in RBS B. I was in Shlomo Sixt car rental agency in RBS A, when in walks a woman escorted by police. She is crying and worked up. She had just been attacked while working in RBS B hanging signs. The police brought her to Shlomo Sixt, while someone else had stayed behind with the car, because the car belonged to Shlomo Sixt and they were working out the procedures for towing, repairing, evidence and whatever else is involved.

&quot;While she was there, she told us, by &quot;us&quot; I mean everyone in the office - me and the clerks who were helping - what had happened. She was emotional and crying.

&quot;I did not write about it yesterday because I was so angry that I could not write about it without painting a broad brush and write things I would later regret. After thinking about it for a long time, and being part of many discussions about what happened, I must say that I did not witness the incident itself. I met her shortly after the incident happened, and I heard part of the story from her, but I still know the details mostly from the media like everyone else.

&quot;Some have said she was there to provoke. I don&#039;t believe it. I spoke with her. She was not dressed provocatively, though she was wearing pants. What was she doing there? Just her presence - she should have known not to go there - well, she told me that she has been hanging up signs all over Bet Shemesh, including in that exact location, for 5 years already! She had absolutely no reason to think that after doing this for so long in that same exact spot that it would suddenly be a problem. You can hear her talk in an interview where she describes how she works with haredim and deals regularly with them and no problem has ever come up before this.

&quot;As well, I find it ridiculous to call her a provocateur. She is a traditional Sefardic woman. She is not a secular atheist who is anti-religious. For the most part, to generalize, the traditional sefardim have more faith than even the most devout religious ashkenazim. This woman, Natalie Mashiach is not, or at least was not, anti-religious.

&quot;While some give lip-service to condemnations of violence, they also, at the same time, offer excuses. She was there provoking. Violence of the two sides. If they really condemned the violence they would not be looking for excuses to explain the behavior. Just condemn the violence.

&quot;This is not a haredi issue, it is not a dati leumi issue, and it is not a secular issue. This is a Bet Shemesh issue. Bet Shemesh, the people of Bet Shemesh, the elected officials of Bet Shemesh and the police of Bet Shemesh all together, has to solve this problem.

&quot;This is also a national problem. While it is happening in Bet Shemesh, it is also happening in Jerusalem. It is also starting to happen in other places, such as Elad and Modiin Ilit, they are fighting in Rehovot about similar issues and it continues to spread.

&quot;Locally, all good people of Bet Shemesh need to put an end to this, and nationally it must be dealt with as well, with support and activism at the highest levels. This is not a gang of teenagers, and that 50 people can stand around and watch 6 hooligans attack a defenseless woman and not try to stop it is unacceptable.

&quot;I have no idea how close or distant Mashiach&#039;s arrival is, but I do know that incidents like what happened yesterday in RBS B show that Mashiach is just not welcome in some places.&quot;

That is the end of the post.  I think it speaks for itself.

an Israeli Yid]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following description of an encounter with the woman in question, which took place shortly after the incident, was posted on the &#8220;Life in Israel&#8221; blog, maintained by Rafi Goldmeir of Ramat Beit Shemesh.  Rafi is a Frum &#8220;American Yeshivish&#8221; man, and is honest and balanced in his posts.</p>
<p>&#8220;I had a chance encounter, that is as much as any encounter can be marked as chance, with Natalie Mashiach yesterday, shortly after she was nearly lynched in RBS B. I was in Shlomo Sixt car rental agency in RBS A, when in walks a woman escorted by police. She is crying and worked up. She had just been attacked while working in RBS B hanging signs. The police brought her to Shlomo Sixt, while someone else had stayed behind with the car, because the car belonged to Shlomo Sixt and they were working out the procedures for towing, repairing, evidence and whatever else is involved.</p>
<p>&#8220;While she was there, she told us, by &#8220;us&#8221; I mean everyone in the office &#8211; me and the clerks who were helping &#8211; what had happened. She was emotional and crying.</p>
<p>&#8220;I did not write about it yesterday because I was so angry that I could not write about it without painting a broad brush and write things I would later regret. After thinking about it for a long time, and being part of many discussions about what happened, I must say that I did not witness the incident itself. I met her shortly after the incident happened, and I heard part of the story from her, but I still know the details mostly from the media like everyone else.</p>
<p>&#8220;Some have said she was there to provoke. I don&#8217;t believe it. I spoke with her. She was not dressed provocatively, though she was wearing pants. What was she doing there? Just her presence &#8211; she should have known not to go there &#8211; well, she told me that she has been hanging up signs all over Bet Shemesh, including in that exact location, for 5 years already! She had absolutely no reason to think that after doing this for so long in that same exact spot that it would suddenly be a problem. You can hear her talk in an interview where she describes how she works with haredim and deals regularly with them and no problem has ever come up before this.</p>
<p>&#8220;As well, I find it ridiculous to call her a provocateur. She is a traditional Sefardic woman. She is not a secular atheist who is anti-religious. For the most part, to generalize, the traditional sefardim have more faith than even the most devout religious ashkenazim. This woman, Natalie Mashiach is not, or at least was not, anti-religious.</p>
<p>&#8220;While some give lip-service to condemnations of violence, they also, at the same time, offer excuses. She was there provoking. Violence of the two sides. If they really condemned the violence they would not be looking for excuses to explain the behavior. Just condemn the violence.</p>
<p>&#8220;This is not a haredi issue, it is not a dati leumi issue, and it is not a secular issue. This is a Bet Shemesh issue. Bet Shemesh, the people of Bet Shemesh, the elected officials of Bet Shemesh and the police of Bet Shemesh all together, has to solve this problem.</p>
<p>&#8220;This is also a national problem. While it is happening in Bet Shemesh, it is also happening in Jerusalem. It is also starting to happen in other places, such as Elad and Modiin Ilit, they are fighting in Rehovot about similar issues and it continues to spread.</p>
<p>&#8220;Locally, all good people of Bet Shemesh need to put an end to this, and nationally it must be dealt with as well, with support and activism at the highest levels. This is not a gang of teenagers, and that 50 people can stand around and watch 6 hooligans attack a defenseless woman and not try to stop it is unacceptable.</p>
<p>&#8220;I have no idea how close or distant Mashiach&#8217;s arrival is, but I do know that incidents like what happened yesterday in RBS B show that Mashiach is just not welcome in some places.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is the end of the post.  I think it speaks for itself.</p>
<p>an Israeli Yid</p>
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		<title>By: yael.e</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yael.e]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 07:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[14. AinOhdMilvado: 
please go learn hebrew - הרימה את חולצתה &#039;hairima et chultzata&#039; means she lifted her SHIRT not her SKIRT. very possible to do when wearing jeans :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14. AinOhdMilvado:<br />
please go learn hebrew &#8211; הרימה את חולצתה &#8216;hairima et chultzata&#8217; means she lifted her SHIRT not her SKIRT. very possible to do when wearing jeans <img src='http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Avi K</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246696</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Avi K]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#11, I also know Hebrew and I did not hear that.Moreover, they did not &quot;request&quot; that she leave they cursed her and called her vile names. I suggest giiving them their own town in the Negev and let them fight with the Beduin.

#13 and #15, in Israel it is common to put up notices of items for sale (not necessary tahmishei kedusha) on shul and yeshiva bulletin boards. She is most likely Sephardic (especially as she says that she grew up in Bet Shemesh) and used to the more live-and-let-live attitude in Sephardic shuls, where traditional Jews of varying degrees of observance mingle with National Religious and Chareidi people (with separate sections for prayers of course).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11, I also know Hebrew and I did not hear that.Moreover, they did not &#8220;request&#8221; that she leave they cursed her and called her vile names. I suggest giiving them their own town in the Negev and let them fight with the Beduin.</p>
<p>#13 and #15, in Israel it is common to put up notices of items for sale (not necessary tahmishei kedusha) on shul and yeshiva bulletin boards. She is most likely Sephardic (especially as she says that she grew up in Bet Shemesh) and used to the more live-and-let-live attitude in Sephardic shuls, where traditional Jews of varying degrees of observance mingle with National Religious and Chareidi people (with separate sections for prayers of course).</p>
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		<title>By: lazerc</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246695</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[lazerc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 06:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is no excuse to physically attack a women even if she is wearing a miniskirt in the middle of a group of religious men. They can close their eyes or turn away. The mitzvah is not looking; her&#039;s is dressing modestly. The fact that she does not dress modestly does not mean that they can attack her. Her immodest dress does not grant permission for anyone to hit her.

These people are not Torah observant; they dress like it but act like thugs, which they are.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no excuse to physically attack a women even if she is wearing a miniskirt in the middle of a group of religious men. They can close their eyes or turn away. The mitzvah is not looking; her&#8217;s is dressing modestly. The fact that she does not dress modestly does not mean that they can attack her. Her immodest dress does not grant permission for anyone to hit her.</p>
<p>These people are not Torah observant; they dress like it but act like thugs, which they are.</p>
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		<title>By: bpkj</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246691</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bpkj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 04:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#14 Have you ever seen any women - even the most modestly dressed - hanging posters in any Orthodox shul here in NY?
If she was frum she would have known not to enter among all the men; and if she was not, then what was she doing in the most ultra-chasidish Bais Medrash if not provoking them?
On the other hand, I not only condemn the violent response because it is so thuggish, but also because this behavior provides so much food for fodder in the media!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14 Have you ever seen any women &#8211; even the most modestly dressed &#8211; hanging posters in any Orthodox shul here in NY?<br />
If she was frum she would have known not to enter among all the men; and if she was not, then what was she doing in the most ultra-chasidish Bais Medrash if not provoking them?<br />
On the other hand, I not only condemn the violent response because it is so thuggish, but also because this behavior provides so much food for fodder in the media!</p>
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		<title>By: AinOhdMilvado</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AinOhdMilvado]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#11  yoelyfromwilli  said...

&quot;if you know hebrew it says she lifted her skirt .that means she disgraced the bais medresh&quot;.

1) I DO know Hebrew and I did NOT hear that said.
2) It would have been quite hard for to &quot;lift her skirt&quot; when in fact she was wearing pants (jeans) and NOT a skirt.
3) From what I did hear her saying she did NOT at all seem like she was trying to provoke anything.  ONE individual young lady (NOT a group of left wing trouble makers) only wanted to hang up some flyers.
Sadly, did not realize the kind of people she was going to encounter. 
4) There is NO excuse to behave like these thugs did IN ANY CASE, WHATEVER she did.  People are writing that she &quot;stubbornly&quot; refused to leave.  WHERE are they getting this from? From the wackos who spit on her, stoned her car, and scared her half to death?!?!  It clearly is NOT what she says happened.  What horrible chilul HaSh-m!!!  What is wrong with these people?!?!  I&#039;m sure they are very active in kiruv (NOT!!!) What chiloni would look at these creeps and think &quot;Ahhh, what a beautiful way of life, I want to be like them!&quot;  THEY are the ones who act like shkutzim!!!  DISGUSTING!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#11  yoelyfromwilli  said&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;if you know hebrew it says she lifted her skirt .that means she disgraced the bais medresh&#8221;.</p>
<p>1) I DO know Hebrew and I did NOT hear that said.<br />
2) It would have been quite hard for to &#8220;lift her skirt&#8221; when in fact she was wearing pants (jeans) and NOT a skirt.<br />
3) From what I did hear her saying she did NOT at all seem like she was trying to provoke anything.  ONE individual young lady (NOT a group of left wing trouble makers) only wanted to hang up some flyers.<br />
Sadly, did not realize the kind of people she was going to encounter.<br />
4) There is NO excuse to behave like these thugs did IN ANY CASE, WHATEVER she did.  People are writing that she &#8220;stubbornly&#8221; refused to leave.  WHERE are they getting this from? From the wackos who spit on her, stoned her car, and scared her half to death?!?!  It clearly is NOT what she says happened.  What horrible chilul HaSh-m!!!  What is wrong with these people?!?!  I&#8217;m sure they are very active in kiruv (NOT!!!) What chiloni would look at these creeps and think &#8220;Ahhh, what a beautiful way of life, I want to be like them!&#8221;  THEY are the ones who act like shkutzim!!!  DISGUSTING!!!</p>
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		<title>By: bpkj</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246678</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bpkj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just one moment!!! 
This woman entered the Rema shul (the shul that Reb. Moishe Arye Freund zt&quot;l founded) and refused to leave.
Picture the same scenario in Lakewood Yeshiva, in Lubavich, in Bobov......
I have no doubt that those in the above-mentioned Batei Midrashim, upon her stubborn insistence of remaining in the all-male premises, would politely invite her to join them at their shiur.
There is no excuse for violence but how do you support such outright provocation, and then condemn the response?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one moment!!!<br />
This woman entered the Rema shul (the shul that Reb. Moishe Arye Freund zt&#8221;l founded) and refused to leave.<br />
Picture the same scenario in Lakewood Yeshiva, in Lubavich, in Bobov&#8230;&#8230;<br />
I have no doubt that those in the above-mentioned Batei Midrashim, upon her stubborn insistence of remaining in the all-male premises, would politely invite her to join them at their shiur.<br />
There is no excuse for violence but how do you support such outright provocation, and then condemn the response?</p>
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		<title>By: mr.2cents</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246677</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mr.2cents]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2012 01:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The women is just plain dumb if she though that she can safely make a statement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The women is just plain dumb if she though that she can safely make a statement.</p>
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		<title>By: yoelyfromwilli</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/115710/more-violence-arrests-in-beit-shemesh.html#comment-246671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[yoelyfromwilli]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=115710#comment-246671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[if you know hebrew it says she lifted her skirt .that means she disgraced the bais medresh]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you know hebrew it says she lifted her skirt .that means she disgraced the bais medresh</p>
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