Comments on: OU Purim Safety Alert: Intoxication is Not a Mitzvah

By: proud orthodox jew

proud orthodox jew — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 02:43:09 +0000

Although PinchasEliezer bashing of litvaks has nothing to do with the picture, he does make some little sense. The Gemara seems to state clearly that one should get extremely drunk. There are those (starting from the Rishonim) who don’t learn it this way, but the majority paskin taking the Gemara literally. The Rama brings down the second way as a Yesh Omrim and ends by stating that either way is good as long as he does it with the mindset to do the will of Hashem. There are those that say that it is better to not get so drunk, and those that say that you are not yotzei unless you get plastered. There are also those that right that if one is going to do incorrect things it is better for him not to get so drunk (may even be told clear but not to). It is an argument that is going back to the times of the Rishonim and maybe even the times of the Gemara (according to the Ron). Whatever the case it is a complicated sugya and many pens have been broken discussing the subject. For someone in todays day and age (unless they are trully the Gadol Hador) to come out and make a statement across the board seems down right foolish. BTW The mitzva according to everyone starts at the age of all mitzvos. Teenagers are included in all mitzvos including this one (unless the claim can be made that the bodies of teenagers have changed from the times of Chazal and teenagers bodies can no longer handle alcohol. A very difficult claim to make.)

By: fedup11210

fedup11210 — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 01:24:13 +0000

The mitzvah to drink on Purim is only at the seudah and only with wine. Pleaserefer to the Rama on this halachah. In addition, one must be aware that only a parent can serve his underage child alcoholic beverages.

Here is the law in NYS:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ABC/5/65-c

1. Except as
hereinafter provided, no person under the age of twenty-one years shall
possess any alcoholic beverage, as defined in this chapter, with the
intent to consume such beverage.
2. A person under the age of twenty-one years may possess any
alcoholic beverage with intent to consume if the alcoholic beverage is
given:
(a) to a person who is a student in a curriculum licensed or
registered by the state education department and the student is required
to taste or imbibe alcoholic beverages in courses which are a part of
the required curriculum, provided such alcoholic beverages are used only
for instructional purposes during class conducted pursuant to such
curriculum; or
(b) to the person under twenty-one years of age by that person’s
parent or guardian.

By: Yanky55

Yanky55 — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 22:14:10 +0000

Why don’t dopes #2,3 and 4 talk to some of the hatzolah guys who every year state that they see countless youngsters brought into the ER on Purim?

By: ashleigh

ashleigh — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:23:15 +0000

#2 – PinhasErez: You sound like a complete and total moron. Not just for your twisted ideas and bias against Jews who aren’t exactly like you (Litvish vs. Chasidish). You wouldn’t look so stupid either if you’d learn some proper spelling and grammar before you post a long, rambling idiotic comment.

By: AinOhdMilvado

AinOhdMilvado — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:35:51 +0000

Bottom line…

You can’t count on kids to act maturely.

So…

Parents!!! Know EXACTLY what your kids are doing – even if it means following them around.

“Oh my son’s a good boy and he’s out with a bunch of his friends from yeshiva” – If that’s what you are thinking you may, r’l, be courting disaster!

(How many ‘nice’ yeshiva boys have we all seen drunk, jumping around in the middle of dark streets on Purim night with only chasdai HaSh-m protecting them from getting hit by a car or truck?!?)

I know – too overprotective.
Maybe. But at least your child is not in a hospital (or worse) when Purim is over.

“But you have to let them live!”
–Exactly.

By: eric55

eric55 — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:31:54 +0000

Oh thats news to me so the OU actually has a different shulchun orach!! the fact is it is a mitzva and the ou sounds like a bunch of appikorsim to me

By: Daniel Q Blog

Daniel Q Blog — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:11:18 +0000

“Bodily harm through intoxication is not a mitzvah on Purim, and driving under the influence of alcohol is illegal, leads to impaired judgment, and chas ve’shalom, a possible catastrophe.”

The pshuta mashmos, as is clear from the Gemara and Poskim, is intoxication is a mitzvah, acting stupid and/or illegal in a way that can lead to physical harm is definitely not a mitzvah. Obviously, the title is meant to be l’chumra for those who only read titles, but those who are look at the whole OU see a very logical system.

I have to agree and disagree with Softwords. First, I disagree the problem is adherence to mitzvos. Most “young adults” I see going too far are not doing it for the sake of the mitzvah nor would not be acting this way if they knew of alternative ways of being yotzei. Rather, they are kids who want to let loose. That’s why I agree with Softwords that a dry purim is not necessarily a good idea (greatly depends on a teen/young adult). For those that long to let go and are acting extreme in a way that just reveals whats going on inside, the best idea is for them to quote “let go” but in a safe environment and within reason. Today we are so corrupted by the whole culture as a whole, cakes and rust and everything builds on our neshamas. I have personally seen on Purim that the drinking can for one day take away all that and reveal a soul that really just wants to the ratzon Hashem. Of course, this doesn’t happen if one is getting drunk and then going around creating trouble. Yet, if done in the right setting, it can be a positive JEWISH experience that can really transform someone even after Purim. Not saying always, but to anyone who thinks telling certain young men even on purim you can have “no fun” is a good chinuch idea, then please reconsider.

DQB

By: PinhasErez

PinhasErez — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:52:40 +0000

Misleading Headline.
Inside reads “Bodily harm through intoxication is not a mitsvah”. Well duh.
However, please open your Gemaras to Masekhat Megillah, page….. Yes driking on Purim is a mitsvah, for men from the age of 13.
About this study conducted by the University of Minnesota, on case group from Chicago! Please, you cant be serious! Thos 4000 kids included in the study were yidden! Nope!. Well, guess what, we are different. So stop your litvish preaching please, and including such incompatible matter to further your adgenda.
And if your boys are showing any of those symptoms listed, those are ALL symptoms of being male, and that age. Good grief. Please dont suffocate your children folks. Now for the other parents, get some backbone. How about not letting any of the guys drive on Purim, if you cant avoid drinking and driving any other way?

Guys, 13 and up. Please drink on Purim. Please drink alot, unless you have three competent doctors who tell you you absolutely must not, or three competant Rabbis telling you you absolutely must not!
Dont let a bunch of anti drinking on Purim litvack amalekites tell you not to drink, ON PURIM!!!!

Happy Purim. To the JEWS their was joy and gladdness! TO the JEWS there was WINE, and to the monkeys there was GRAPE JUICE!

By: Softwords

Softwords — Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:32:00 +0000

I’m not one to judge the actions of the Rabbanim of the OU, especially being that I don’t live in America. However, it seems to me that there approach may not be the most effective approach to safety on Purim. Perhaps it would be better to do what the mothers of MADD (Mom’s Against Drunk Driving) did which was to realize that they will get drunk against your will, so instead they focused on getting them home safely.

I’d propose to teach three things.
1) Teach the Halacha clearly, so that teens can make an educated decision to drink or not. Too many kids think they have to get drunk and most people don’t realize that you can be yotzei with a drop more than you would normally drink. For most people two cups would fulfill their chiyuv. Also, some don’t even know that if they violate any halachas their mitzva is no longer a mitzva, but rather an aveira.
2) Educate kids of the dangers of intoxication and teach them how to know how much is too much. There are websites that help calculate this, such as http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org. Knowing this before you start drinking can help you make restrictions for yourself.
3) Organize a group of designated drivers and a number to call to pick up kids and take them home. I remember when MADD started. It worked and saved lives!

Of course, this won’t fully resolve the problem, but it’ll significantly reduce the problems.

If I was a kid I’d probably scoff at being told “Don’t Drink”. That’s as effective as the “Just Say No” campaign.

Comments on: OU Purim Safety Alert: Intoxicati​on is Not a Mitzvah