Comments on: Eida Ravaad On Sentence Of Rabbi Uri Lupoliansky

By: Rainus

Rainus — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 08:43:30 +0000

CrayKanoly -

This has nothing to do with merely good intentions. The deal was going to happen anyway. The other, corrupted, chevra wanted to make a pretty penny for themselves over it. They could have replaced him as the councillor in charge of Buildings and Land Ownership. He played along with them and got a donation for an organization that serves the needs of every citizen in the city without discrimination. He didn’t defraud the city and he didn’t accept bribes. The city got paid. If not for him, the city would not have gotten a red cent. And for that he should get 6 years in prison?! Especially in today’s society where justice is not governed by the rule of law as much as it is governed by the judges taking all sorts of spirits of the case into account. I am certain had it been Olmert who had asked a donation for IDF veterans or the Cancer Society, he would have gotten off with far less or none at all.

By: crazykanoiy

crazykanoiy — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:13:52 +0000

Rainus –

Any functioning society requires the rule of law. Breaking those laws, even with presumably good intentions is illegal. A public official who accepts money to facilitate a real estate transaction is accepting a bribe. Punishment for bribery may be harsh and a case oan clearly be made for leniency but punishment for a crime is justice not an injustice.

By: Rainus

Rainus — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 12:17:07 +0000

Yad Sarah is an organization that the city should really have set up, finance and run. If someone in the city council makes a deal for easing the taxes of a real estate company, in exchange for that company helping out the city’s residents with their medical expenses, that is not bribery. In fact, of all the cohorts that were part of that scheme, Reb Uri is the only one that had the city’s residents in mind, that they should not lose out because of the deal. Just because Olmert and his cronies could care less about the loss in revenue that ultimately hurts the taxpayers, and they justifiably should go to prison, does not mean that one who is part of the scheme whose only interest in the scheme is that the city’s residents should not lose out but should recoup their losses to the tune of 2 million shekels, should go to prison too. This is injustice. But what do we expect from a secular judge? Such a distinction is expected only of someone with seichel, from someone who once learned Tosfos perhaps.

By: crazykanoiy

crazykanoiy — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:47:51 +0000

#7 The Torah makes allowences for a melech and horaas shoh. A melech and by extension a government are tasked with making sure civilization functions properly they can make laws and punish in excess of what is described in the torah.

#8 It is not a chutzpah to ask a question. Unfortunatley when crimes are commited in our community the entire focus is in on the alleged innocence of the perpertrator and the perceived unjustness of the sentence. Where is the outcry about the crimes commited? Where is the much neccesary discussion and soul searching over the that prisons are full of frum yidden convicted of white collar crime?

By: aymdock

aymdock — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:49:08 +0000

Just curious – is it bribery for the government to give building rights faster to a project marketed for the very wealthy in return for high value added tax (VAT)? Certain building projects seem to get streamlined due to the amount of VAT the government will get…. that’s giving an organization money for doing you a favor. Why is that different?

By: eyefortruth

eyefortruth — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:27:49 +0000

lakewooder,
i dont know where you get your information, but jails most definitely exist in halachic judaism. אם יקום והתהלך בחוץ וכו׳. the gemara learns from here that they would hold a man in prison to wait and see if the injured man would die from the wounds inflicted by the prisoner.
but beyond that, it is totally within a court’s right to imprison a man as a form of punishment. many rishonim explain the point of the king in judaism was to maintain law and order beyond the strict borders of normative halachah, i.e. he could execute a man without two witnesses, and things like that. so a court, no matter how secular they may be, has the right, as the enforcement arm of the government , to imprison those they deem fit.

By: Eli Willner

Eli Willner — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:55:38 +0000

#1: How does bklynmom explain her chutzpah in attempting to call gedolei yisroel to account?

By: lakewooder107

lakewooder107 — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:49:48 +0000

Rabosai!
With all due respect you misunderstood the main point of the Raavad Shlita. The Torah Hakedosha doesn’t ever “punish” someone with jail time. There are some who get killed, some who get Malkus, & some who pay a monetary fine. No-one gets put in jail. A Jewish judge who sentences someone to jail fits in the category of משפטים בל ידעום as the Raavad said. In addition, even according to “their” laws, this sentence is cruel & unjust. These were the two points of the Raavad. The previous comments espoused very negative feelings and didn’t at all address these points.

By: akuperma

akuperma — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:46:03 +0000

How is it bribery to tell persons wishing to business with the government that they should be supporting local charities? By definition, bribery is when one side gives the other side money to do something – no one gave Lupoliansky anything.

The real crime is that Lupoliansky was known for supporting the Hareidi “civil society” (non-state, non-zionist NGO sector). At most, his only crime was collaborating with the anti-Torah zionist regime, but that involves a different system of justice.

By: Seichel Brosh

Seichel Brosh — Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:27:42 +0000

A real crime is only when the act is criminal disregard the law, a crime against the law which is different in every country and sometimes in every city is a very low level of crime and every thing possible should be considered to ease the punishment, whoever endangers a person’s life for an act that does not give you the right to endanger his life using the law as an excuse is a criminal himself.