Search
Close this search box.

To Eat in the Sukkah or Not to Eat in the Sukkah on SA.. That is the Question


sukkah2By Rabbi Yair Hoffman for the Five Towns Jewish Times

True, this is not quite Hamlet’s question, but it is one that is plaguing many a frum family.

One of the general differences between Litvaks (Misnagdim) and Chassidim lies in what they do on the holiday of Shmini Atzeres regarding eating in the Sukkah. Chassidim have traditionally taken a more lenient view than their Litvak counterparts on the issue. It should be noted that each of the two opinions should be respected. Rav Tzaddok HaKohen, in his work Maishiv Tzedek, writes that those who do not eat in the Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres do have a basis in the Gemorah and the Yerushalmi. In this article, an attempt will be made to explain the halachic basis of each of the two customs.

The Torah tells us that we must dwell in the Sukkah for seven days. The Torah further tells us that on the eighth day we have a new and different holiday. Thus Sukkos only lasts for seven days, according to the Torah and the eighth day is an additional holiday, in and of itself. By Rabbinic decree, of course, we add on a second day to each of the Yomim Tovim for those who dwell outside of the land of Israel. This creates a halachic problem for the holiday of Shmini Atzeres. Do we eat our meals in the Sukkah or do we eat them in the home? It is a subject that was disputed in the Talmud, may be a debate between the Yerushalmi and the Bavli, and the subject of sharp debate between Chassidim and Misnagdim to this day.

It is also interesting to note that while there may be debate in regard to the practice of eating in the Sukkah, all agree that we do not take a Lulav on Shmini Atzeres – even without a bracha. The Baalei Tosfos (47a “Maisav”) explain that since a Lulav would be Muktzah on Shmini Atzeres, it would clearly demonstrate that he is treating Shmini Atzeres like Chol, whereas, in regard to eating in a Sukkah, the act is not so noticeable because many people like eating in a Sukkah. As we will discuss later in this article, it is this Tosfos (and the Rosh) that may be the source for the leniency of the Chassidish world.

THE GEMORAH

The Gemorah (Sukkah 47a) cites a dispute between Rav Yochanan and others in the name of Rav as to what is done on the eighth day outside of Israel regarding eating in the Sukkah. There are two versions of the dispute, but the Gemorah’s final conclusion is that we dwell in the Sukkah but we do not recite a blessing upon it.

THE THREE APPROACHES AND THE THREE SOURCES

The Rishonim approached this Gemorah in three different ways. It is not just this Gemorah, but the combination of three differing sources: This section of the Talmud Bavli, a Talmud Yerushalmi, and a Midrash Tanchuma. The Midrash Tanchuma (Parshas Pinchas #15) asks, “Why did the sages permit leaving the Sukkah on the last day of the Yom Tov? Because the entire Yom Tov we pray for dew and on the last day we pray for rains – therefore, they leave the Sukkah on the last day of the Yom Tov so that they will be able to pray with a full heart.” There is also a somewhat enigmatic Talmud Yerushalmi (Sukkah 4:5 and Brachos 6:6) that states, “If someone enjoys his Sukkah, he may make kiddush on the last night of Yom Tov in his home and then arise and eat in his Sukkah.”

MAINSTREAM APPROACH

The majority of Rishonim understand the Gemorah in the Bavli as mandating that both of the meals of Shmini Atzeres be eaten in the Sukkah. This is the view of Rashi (cited in Sefer HaPardes), the Raavya, Maharam MiRottenberg (See Tashbatz 147) Rabbeinu Chananel, the Sefer HaMinhagim, and the SMaK. This view is the one that has been codified in Shulchan Aruch (OC 668:1).

NOT AT NIGHT APPROACH

There are Rishonim, however, who did not eat in the Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres at night. Apprently, these Rishonim, assumed that the Yerushalmi was also referring to Chutz La’Aretz, and attempted to resolve the Yerushalmi source and the Bavli source. This custom is mentioned in the Tur (OC 668), the Maharil (Hilchos Lulav), the Machzor Vitri (384), and the Orchos Chaim.

Why not at night? A good question. Perhaps, (as it may perhaps be suggested in Tosfos 47b “Maisav”) it is less comfortable at night than in the daytime and there is also a concern of fulfilling V’samachta b’chagecha in a more ideal manner on Shmini Atzeres as well.

The Bais Yoseph suggests a different answer – that at night the blessing of Shehecheyanu is recited on Shmini Atzeres because it is its own Yom Tov. Eating in the Sukkah would therefore highlight the inherent conflict between these two opposites. Eating on the next day, however, would not highlight the difference so much.

The Bach gives yet a different explanation. Indeed, he provides two different explanations. In OC 666 he writes that according to this view, if eating were to be permitted on the night of Shmini Atzeres it would appear as if one was adding to the Torah. The discontinuation at night resolves this perception. In OC 668 he provides, what seems to be an opposite explanation to the first one that he gave. He writes that since it is a Mitzvah to add onto Kodesh, if one were to eat on the night after the Torah obligation of Sukkosd, one would still require a blessing over the eating. In this manner, of discontinuing at night, this problem is resolved.

HALF OF THE MEAL APPROACH

Other Rishonim have the custom to eat half of the meal in the SUkkah and the other half in the home. This custom is mentioned in the addendum to the Sefer HaMinhagim and is cited in the TaZ. His father-in-law, the Bach, however, states that this custom is in direct violation of our Talmud (Sukkah 47a).

VIEW OF ACHRONIM

However, as mentioned earlier, the majority view is to eat all the meals in the Sukkah and that is how the Shulchan Aruch codified the Halacha. The Mishna Brurah also writes, “And so have concluded all the Achronim, like the ruling of the Shulchan Aruch that the obligation is both at night and in the daytime.” Who are these Achronim? They are the Mogen Avrohom, the Eliyahu Rabbah, the Mateh Ephraim, the Chayei Adam, Maamar Mordechai, Chasam Sofer (see Ksav Sofer Responsa #120). The Kaf HaChaim as well rules in the same manner as does the Mishna Brurah.

The Munkatcher Rebbe (Minchas Elazar IV #31), however, cites the aforementioned Tosfos (47a) as the source for being more lenient on Shmini Atzeres to eat in the home. He writes that, “since it is colder in our countries (in Europe) it is more apparent that we would only be sitting in the Sukkah for the purpose of the Mitzvah and not merely because it would be pleasant.” The Minchas Elazar would equate eating in the Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres in a colder climate with taking of the lulav on Shmini Atzeres. Both should not be done because it is apparent that one is doing it for the Mitzvah.

The Aruch HaShulchan also justifies the position of the Chassidim and writes (OC 660:5) that the Chachamim ordained that the eating be in such a way that it not be apparent that he is doing so only for the sake of the Mitzvah. He concludes, however, that ideally, one should only leave the Sukkah after the day meal.



17 Responses

  1. I’m not chasidish but I’ve heard about a chasidishe minhag to eat the night meal in the succa but not the day meal and the satmar rebbe (r Yoel) tried to stop the minhag. Can anyone confirm this?

  2. Mendoza; What do you mean? Everyone eats all the meals on Shmini Atzeres.
    Also regardless of one’s eating minhag, everyone does Yetzia min Hasukka on Shmini Atzeres. That would explain the Rebbe’s tea.

  3. to anon21
    yes i did hear that
    they would make kidush in the סוכה in the afternooon and
    wash and eat challa then
    eat the rest of the meal in the house

  4. I know someone who is returning from Eretz Yisroel on Sunday, Hoshana Rabbah, and was told that Reb Dovid Cohen said to set up his Succah for Shmini Azteres alone as there is no source in halacha for eating outside the succah and no room to be lenient. ( Not heard personally)

  5. to uncle ben
    i was saying . minhag chabad
    is to eat in the סוכה all day
    shmini atzras in till shkiah
    and we dont make a bracha
    לשב בסוכה
    hav a gut yom tov every body

  6. R Hutner z”l, who had chasidish leanings was makpid to eat in the succah and it was one of the few things that he told his talmidim to disregard their parents’ minhagim about.

  7. as is recorded in relevant seforim, rashi’s rabbeim were undecided on the need to eat in the Sukkah on SA. this was true in the maharil’s time: he ate in the succah, his chavrutah did not. in any case the reason is absolutely clear, given the cold there was an insufficient heker. in our climate, there is no reason not to sit in the sukkah violating a takanat hageonim.

  8. Nice portrayal of the facts although I do take issue with the use of the word “leniency” & “lenient” when it refers to the Chassidishe minhag. Their minhag is Kodesh Kodashim and great Tzadikim have instituted this minhag. They are NOT lenient or lax by any stretch. On the contrary. In fact, they have so many chumros when being mekaayem this mitzva -as well as all others!
    (Parenthetically, you will never ever see a chosud avoid eating in the sukka by reason of “mitz-taaer”: it simply doesn’t exist! It’s mitzvaas Hashem and we do it no matter how seemingly uncomfortable one may be!)
    It’s simply a machlokes!
    It WILL be misunderstood and on Hoshaana Raboh, we certainly don’t wish to cast any negative light on any segment of klaal Yisroel.

    As for the Divrei Yoel, the Satmar Roov zatza”l, in his latter years he changed his minhag and began to eat in the sukka on Shmini Atzeres.
    Most Chassiddim however do not eat in the sukka but do go out by Kiddush Hayom to make kiddush in the sukka and part with the sukka then.

  9. for heaven’s sake, a yid should do what his father does. if you don’t have a Mesorah then do what your community (nearest neighbors do). if you are still perplexed, do what your Rob does, preferably if he lives near you.

    let’s not claim to have a mesorah for things from Sinai and yet be so perplexed by a some “what did tatty do” question that we need to resort to the internet to be machriyah beyneihem.

  10. Oh, and one more point, if I may! The Divrei Yoel did NOT instruct his chassiddim to likewise change the minhag. It was his personal decision. That leads one to deduce that he too revered the “alte-heim minhag” yet, for whatever personal reason, he changed. I think he did this at age 70!

  11. Sorry Uncle Ben but “everyone” DOES NOT eat in the Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres in Chutz L’aaretz. Most chassidim do not although they make kiddush in the sukkah.

  12. “this is not quite Hamlet’s question, but it is one that is plaguing many a frum family”

    Very interesting analysis but I doubt there are many frum families “plagued” by this shaylah or staying up nights worrying about “to eat or not to eat”. There are probably frum families where the bal habayis “leans chasidish” who do and vice versa for misnagdim/litvish families. Either way, as no. 14 says, just follow whatever your tatah did and you’ll be fine. This seems to be a rough equivalent of one of the other shaylos plaguing yidden at the end of pesach…to gebrotz or not to gebrots.

Leave a Reply


Popular Posts