Comments on: Maran Rav Shteinman To Lead Prison March: Preparations In Full Swing

By: AinOhdMilvado

AinOhdMilvado — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 13:26:44 +0000

To Webster #26 –
The Torah says “shayshet yamim ta’aseh melachtecha.”
A HUGE portion of the Torah she’be’ktav and she’ba’al peh relate to planting and harvesting crops and MANY other work related issues.
So, is it “anti-Torah” to say people need to work to support themselves? Is it “anti-Torah” to say people need to train to learn HOW to do something to work AT?!?
Or… is it just “anti-Torah” to disagree with YOU?
–And… By the way, I happen to know “RamatShilo” personally. He is a very special ben Torah, baal chesed extraordinaire, AND a genius! Is it a p’gam in his frumkeit that it bothers him when he sees so many chareidim that can’t support their families because they were never properly educated to do so.
If his punctuation is off, it’s probably because he thinks much faster than he can type. You really should find someone else to criticize! Klal Yisrael could use many more like him!

By: Reality check

Reality check — Thu, 17 Jun 2010 07:25:24 +0000

Kosher kid-
Nice try. I don’t have a problem, I could care less about posters, and after speaking with many rabbanim, I am planning to send my son iy”H to the new yeshiva WITH secular studies. I am simply stating the FACT that such schools are considered to be “poretz geder” by the Chareidi establishment. Don’t pretend otherwise. Let’s hear you name ONE high school that is both sanctioned by the Chareidi establishment and has ANY secular studies. Having trouble? Hmm… I wonder why. Maybe because THERE ISN’T ONE! And don’t try naming Maarava, which was put in cherem by Rav Schach and is still officially in cherem according to all mainstream Israeli Chareidim- as per the official Yated Neeman editorial which stated clearly that ANY limudei chol in yeshiva ketana (Israeli high school) is against the “mesorah”.

By: kosherkid

kosherkid — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:09:58 +0000

Reality check – I live in Eretz Yisroel, and am very familiar with the Chareidi school system here. Your problem is that you define any school with secular studies as non-Chareidi. I would suggest that you speak with a true Godol about this issue, and not live your life based on posters.

Ramat Shilo – The Israeli high-tech field is full of Olim from Anglo countries, Russia, etc. Of the Israelis who innovate, there are Chareidim as well and their numbers are increasing – unless you also define a Chareidi who works as non-Chareidi.

By: webster

webster — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:45:52 +0000

RamatShilo, your own spelling and punctuation could use considerable improvement.As for AinOhdMilvado, if your log-in name refers to Hashem,I strongly recommmend your getting a different name, as you spout some values that are anti-Torah.

By: NekadeshEsShimcha

NekadeshEsShimcha — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:43:49 +0000

We all know that for Hagaon Rav A.Leib Shteinman, for rav Chaim Kanievsky for rav Y. Shalom Elyashiv Shlita every single minute is calculated and there is not even a second of bitul Torah
AND YET-
THEY HAVE ALL DECLARED TONIGHT THAT THEY WILL BE JOINING THE GRAND ESCORT TOMORROW OF THE KEDOSHIM, THE SLONIMER CHASSIDIM WHO ARE FOLLOWING THE WORDS OF DAAS TORAH AND WILL BE GOING TO PRISON AL KIDDUSH HASHEM.
If Rav Chaim Kanievsky will be giving his precious time, to come all the way, to escort the kedoshim, who will be dressed in their Bigdei Shabbos as they were instructed to do, to the prison along with hundreds of thousands of Jews who wish to be a part of this massive scale Kidush shem shamayim, then there are no more words left for us to say.
We have Torah leaders.
And theirs is the final word.
we are small people with limited vision but they rav Elyashiv, rav Shternbuch, Rav Chaim Kanievsky, the Slonimer Rebbe – THEY are great people who have a vision far greater than what any of us can see.
they have announced that they too will be there and have encouraged Kol Chared Dvar Hashem to come and take part of this mitzvah that Rabbi Akiva declared he longed for all his life, to be Mekesh Shem Shamayim.
Utzu Eita Vesufar dabru Davar Velo Yakum
KI IMANU KEL.

By: NekadeshEsShimcha

NekadeshEsShimcha — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:38:38 +0000

We are a nation that follows Gedolei Torah. Our leaders are Maran Harav Elyashiv, Maran Shteinman, Hagaon Rav Chaim kanievsky, Rav Moshe Sternbuch, the Slonimer Rebbe, the Gerrer Rebbe, just to name a few of the greatest leaders of our generation. We are small people, we have no place to give our “opinion” of what should or shouldnt happen. that is NOT the Torah way at all. This is one of the greatest chances in the history of the last 60 years to be mekadesh shem shamayim beRabim, to show that Daas Torah rules and not a SECULAR Israeli government or court system that gives Torah no place at all.
all the above and almost every other gadol beyisroel has declared their staunch support of the Emanuel parents and of their representing us, the entire Chareidi community who is only aiming to be Mekadesh Shem Shamayim
3)these gedolim have sent out their chassidim, and I mean chassidim as followers litvish, ashkenazi and yes, even sephardi to collect money on behalf of the parents for they are representing the fight for US ALL, EVEN THOSE OF US IN AMERICA….!!!!!!! THIS IS A FIGHT FOR THE CHINUCH OF OUR CHILDREN
IT IS A FIGHT TO SEE WHO HAS THE FINAL WORD IN THE COUNTRY, THE COURT OR DAAS TORAH

MI KE’AMCHA YISRAEL
a nation that is ready to walk proudly into prison in order to Do the Will of Hashem and to follow the words of our Leaders.

By: mw13

mw13 — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:19:41 +0000

#10 – “The Tanakh is full of stories of Gedolim who made mistakes, we can just add this one time to the list.”
One problem – the Torah was written by Hashem, not by man. But who do you think you are to decide when the Gedolim make a mistake?! Do you think you are smarter than they are? How long have you spent checking the facts behind this case? To say somebody made a mistake you need to be greater than they are, and while Hashem may fit the bill somehow I don’t think you do.

19 – Very well said. I could not agree more.

By: RamatShilo

RamatShilo — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:33:52 +0000

how can u say misrad hachinuch system doesnt work–while it might not be perfect look at the results…
go to Hertzilya or Tel Aviv Or Kiryat Gat to the the high tech fields… look at who is staffing them and coming up with new inventions and creatign high tech startups…its all data leumi and chiloni… not charedi– want to know why? bec the chareidim are not being educated…
Like i said in past…for those special boys who will become the next gedolim learn 24/7..everyone else should be learning and receiving a solid education…

By: Reality check

Reality check — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:20:10 +0000

Kosher kid- You wrote: “There are some Chareidi schools that have secular studies, most often math, language skills, and possibly science, and some schools that don’t”

Absolute nonsense. People who think that Chareidim in Israel are like people in Brooklyn are deluding themselves. There is not even ONE officially accepted Chareidi high school that has ANY secular studies at all. In fact, in Ramat Beit Shemesh a new yeshiva is opening in Elul that will be a yeshivish high school with math, English and Hebrew, and there have been pashkevilim plastered all over the country and even on the front page of Yated Neeman saying it’s “poretz geder.” The official Chareidi establishment in E”Y is 100% against boys learning ANY limudei chol after eighth grade.

Don’t try to pretend that the issue is about teaching “Arab history” or Greek philosophy for that matter. It’s about the basics- math, English and Hebrew grammar-(which are already being taught in Bais Yaakov high schools using 100% appropriate books and materials).

Either you don’t live in Eretz Yisroel (I do)or you are purposefully trying to trick people.

By: AinOhdMilvado

AinOhdMilvado — Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:12:37 +0000

To #19 – I am not resentful toward chareidim AT ALL. Although perhaps you might not agree, I am chareidi myself, or perhaps more accurately charda”l.
The point is, the chareidi community can’t have it both ways, i.e. be extremely vocally anti the state (not that I don’t oppose MUCH of what they do myself, but as an INsider, not an OUTsider) in EVERY way, and YET at the same time make demands on a state they don’t recognize for all kinds of financial aid.
To #18 – I did not say they want to join the work force, another commenter did. What I said is, that to wake up at 35 years of age or so, when you already have a large family, and have learned ONLY Torah your whole life and NOTHING else, and THEN realize you want to get a job, – you are going to be in a major problem.
The interesting thing is, that in America it is a Litvish thing to just sit and learn and not work. In America, chasidim WORK. In Eretz Yisrael, where they don’t, is where we have this problem arising.