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	<title>Comments on: A Personal Look at the Emanuel Conflict</title>
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		<title>By: Popular-Priced Tzaddeek</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-190225</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Popular-Priced Tzaddeek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-190225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t understand Israeli jurisprudence.  How can the Court issue orders to people who are not parties to the case?  If it can legally, the Knesset should act to restrain a runaway judiciary.
As an American prospective oleh, it gives me pause to entrust my life, freedom, and property to such an ungoverned system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand Israeli jurisprudence.  How can the Court issue orders to people who are not parties to the case?  If it can legally, the Knesset should act to restrain a runaway judiciary.<br />
As an American prospective oleh, it gives me pause to entrust my life, freedom, and property to such an ungoverned system.</p>
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		<title>By: mw13</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-190220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mw13]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 18:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[#14 - &quot;I actually heard that Rav Yakov Yosef did give permission to go to the Bagatz.&quot;
Really?  Where did you here this from?  All I heard was that Rav Ovadya Yosef said that anybody who goes to the secular courts has no olam haba.

#16 - &quot;Sammyboy, Rav Ovadia never said that&quot;
He most certainly has, as I&#039;ve pointed out to you time and time again.  Just because something  inconveniences you doesn&#039;t mean it didn&#039;t happen.
&quot;most of the mothers were Yiddishe mamas ashkenaziot, maybe one was a sefardic one converted to the ashkenazi way of life.&quot;
I find it incredible that somebody can say &quot;maybe one was a sefardic&quot;, clearly showing that you do not have any concrete figures, and still blast another commentor saying &quot;from were you get your info??... so get you “facts” straigth before posting&quot; in the very same post.  Do you realize how contradictory that is?

#20 - &quot;Rav Yakov Yosef is a very respected posek... he knows the halocho and nonetheless felt that in this case it was permitted to go the secular court.&quot;
I have never seen anywhere that Rav Yaakov Yosef allowed Lalum to go to the High Court, I would appreciate if you could bring me a source for that.
&quot;If a Rov holds a position as a דעת יחיד does that he mean he is a מורד ברבנות for failing to accept the opinion of the majority ? This idea that there can be no dissenting view and that every one including a Rav who is major posek has to submit and be מבטל themselves to the p’sak of the Godol Ha’Dor or other Gedolim is a made up Charadi fantasy.&quot;
Actually, in the times of the Sanhedrin if the Sanhedrin paskened one way al pi rov, and one of the dissenting poskim would pasken not like the rabbim halacha li&#039;maseh, he was warned to stop, and if he kept at it he was executed.  Now obviously today we have no Sanhedrin, and we cannot know who is right and who is wrong, but this concept is certainly no &quot;Charadi fantasy&quot;

#21 - Wow.  You&#039;ve outdone yourself.
&quot;I’m really very surprised YWN allows so much sinat chinam from samshark, his posting are full of arrogance and ‎disrespect for his fellow Jew, unfortunately jews like him were the ones that destroyed the beit haMikdash.‎&quot;
Because saying that &quot;his posting are full of arrogance and ‎disrespect for his fellow Jew, unfortunately jews like him were the ones that destroyed the beit haMikdash&quot; isn&#039;t sinas chinom at all, right?  The hypocrisy of this comment is truly staggering.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14 &#8211; &#8220;I actually heard that Rav Yakov Yosef did give permission to go to the Bagatz.&#8221;<br />
Really?  Where did you here this from?  All I heard was that Rav Ovadya Yosef said that anybody who goes to the secular courts has no olam haba.</p>
<p>#16 &#8211; &#8220;Sammyboy, Rav Ovadia never said that&#8221;<br />
He most certainly has, as I&#8217;ve pointed out to you time and time again.  Just because something  inconveniences you doesn&#8217;t mean it didn&#8217;t happen.<br />
&#8220;most of the mothers were Yiddishe mamas ashkenaziot, maybe one was a sefardic one converted to the ashkenazi way of life.&#8221;<br />
I find it incredible that somebody can say &#8220;maybe one was a sefardic&#8221;, clearly showing that you do not have any concrete figures, and still blast another commentor saying &#8220;from were you get your info??&#8230; so get you “facts” straigth before posting&#8221; in the very same post.  Do you realize how contradictory that is?</p>
<p>#20 &#8211; &#8220;Rav Yakov Yosef is a very respected posek&#8230; he knows the halocho and nonetheless felt that in this case it was permitted to go the secular court.&#8221;<br />
I have never seen anywhere that Rav Yaakov Yosef allowed Lalum to go to the High Court, I would appreciate if you could bring me a source for that.<br />
&#8220;If a Rov holds a position as a דעת יחיד does that he mean he is a מורד ברבנות for failing to accept the opinion of the majority ? This idea that there can be no dissenting view and that every one including a Rav who is major posek has to submit and be מבטל themselves to the p’sak of the Godol Ha’Dor or other Gedolim is a made up Charadi fantasy.&#8221;<br />
Actually, in the times of the Sanhedrin if the Sanhedrin paskened one way al pi rov, and one of the dissenting poskim would pasken not like the rabbim halacha li&#8217;maseh, he was warned to stop, and if he kept at it he was executed.  Now obviously today we have no Sanhedrin, and we cannot know who is right and who is wrong, but this concept is certainly no &#8220;Charadi fantasy&#8221;</p>
<p>#21 &#8211; Wow.  You&#8217;ve outdone yourself.<br />
&#8220;I’m really very surprised YWN allows so much sinat chinam from samshark, his posting are full of arrogance and ‎disrespect for his fellow Jew, unfortunately jews like him were the ones that destroyed the beit haMikdash.‎&#8221;<br />
Because saying that &#8220;his posting are full of arrogance and ‎disrespect for his fellow Jew, unfortunately jews like him were the ones that destroyed the beit haMikdash&#8221; isn&#8217;t sinas chinom at all, right?  The hypocrisy of this comment is truly staggering.</p>
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		<title>By: TorahJew18</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-190143</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TorahJew18]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 12:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-190143</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I’m really very surprised YWN allows so much sinat chinam from samshark, his posting are full of arrogance and ‎disrespect for his fellow Jew, unfortunately jews like him were the ones that destroyed the beit haMikdash.‎]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m really very surprised YWN allows so much sinat chinam from samshark, his posting are full of arrogance and ‎disrespect for his fellow Jew, unfortunately jews like him were the ones that destroyed the beit haMikdash.‎</p>
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		<title>By: rexford</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-190124</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rexford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-190124</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#18
Rav Yakov Yosef is a very respected posek in his own right and quite capable of making his own decisions. I am sure he knows the halocho and nonetheless felt that in this case it was permitted to go the secular court. If a Rov holds a position as a דעת יחיד does that he mean he is a מורד ברבנות for failing to accept the opinion of the majority ? This idea that there can be no dissenting view and that every one including a Rav who is major posek has to submit and be מבטל themselves to the p&#039;sak of the Godol Ha&#039;Dor or other Gedolim is a made up Charadi fantasy. 
Does every Rav have to check their p&#039;sakim with their fathers ? 
Your final comment, &quot;I guess from your logic you could hold by what the reformers say, because according to you, ףwhat difference does it make if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger? is so ridiculous that it is not even worthy of comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#18<br />
Rav Yakov Yosef is a very respected posek in his own right and quite capable of making his own decisions. I am sure he knows the halocho and nonetheless felt that in this case it was permitted to go the secular court. If a Rov holds a position as a דעת יחיד does that he mean he is a מורד ברבנות for failing to accept the opinion of the majority ? This idea that there can be no dissenting view and that every one including a Rav who is major posek has to submit and be מבטל themselves to the p&#8217;sak of the Godol Ha&#8217;Dor or other Gedolim is a made up Charadi fantasy.<br />
Does every Rav have to check their p&#8217;sakim with their fathers ?<br />
Your final comment, &#8220;I guess from your logic you could hold by what the reformers say, because according to you, ףwhat difference does it make if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger? is so ridiculous that it is not even worthy of comment.</p>
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		<title>By: mw13</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-190009</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mw13]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:27:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-190009</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#9 - That is not the story that I heard. I was under the impression that the Slonimer Chassidim did not want to send their daughters to a school that was attended by girls that did not not have the same religious standards. Therefore, the school was split into two tracks - one for the more chareadi, and one for the less chareadi.  Because many of the less chaerdi girls happened to be Sephardim, the Israeli High Court said this was racism, and that all the girls must be educated together.  Look at it this way - how would you feel if your daughters were suddenly being taught in a class of people who looked at yiddishkeit in a very different way than you do? Not only that, but the High Court did not allow the Emanuel parents to send their daughters to a different school.
I find your account difficult to believe.  If things were as black and white as you portray them, why would Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shteinman, Rav Wosner, Rav Kanievsky, Rav Karelitz, Rav Lefkowitz, to name a few, back Chinuch Atzmai?  If things were indeed as you&#039;ve told them, why would Rav Ovadya Yosef say the Lalum has no Olam Haba?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9 &#8211; That is not the story that I heard. I was under the impression that the Slonimer Chassidim did not want to send their daughters to a school that was attended by girls that did not not have the same religious standards. Therefore, the school was split into two tracks &#8211; one for the more chareadi, and one for the less chareadi.  Because many of the less chaerdi girls happened to be Sephardim, the Israeli High Court said this was racism, and that all the girls must be educated together.  Look at it this way &#8211; how would you feel if your daughters were suddenly being taught in a class of people who looked at yiddishkeit in a very different way than you do? Not only that, but the High Court did not allow the Emanuel parents to send their daughters to a different school.<br />
I find your account difficult to believe.  If things were as black and white as you portray them, why would Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shteinman, Rav Wosner, Rav Kanievsky, Rav Karelitz, Rav Lefkowitz, to name a few, back Chinuch Atzmai?  If things were indeed as you&#8217;ve told them, why would Rav Ovadya Yosef say the Lalum has no Olam Haba?</p>
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		<title>By: SamShtark</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-189982</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SamShtark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-189982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#14 &quot;To #11 I actually heard that Rav Yakov Yosef did give permission to go to the Bagatz. So what if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger.&quot;

It&#039;s a very clear issur to bring cases to the secular courts davka in Israel without prior consent of beis din where the Gedolei Yisroel have already paskened a clor issur.

The &quot;so what&quot; is a lack of kovod haTorah and morid haRabbanus. Do you not see the problem with a son going against his father&#039;s psak and not seeking his counsel?

I guess from your logic you could hold by what the reformers say, because according to you, &quot;what difference does it make if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger?&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14 &#8220;To #11 I actually heard that Rav Yakov Yosef did give permission to go to the Bagatz. So what if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a very clear issur to bring cases to the secular courts davka in Israel without prior consent of beis din where the Gedolei Yisroel have already paskened a clor issur.</p>
<p>The &#8220;so what&#8221; is a lack of kovod haTorah and morid haRabbanus. Do you not see the problem with a son going against his father&#8217;s psak and not seeking his counsel?</p>
<p>I guess from your logic you could hold by what the reformers say, because according to you, &#8220;what difference does it make if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: SamShtark</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-189980</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SamShtark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-189980</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m surprised YWN allows smolanim to infest these forums with disrepectful conduct and sheker gomur. Why do the smolanim have a voice on Jewish sites when we have no voice on their sites?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised YWN allows smolanim to infest these forums with disrepectful conduct and sheker gomur. Why do the smolanim have a voice on Jewish sites when we have no voice on their sites?</p>
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		<title>By: TorahJew18</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-189968</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TorahJew18]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 20:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-189968</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Samshark and Cheesed:
Sammyboy, Rav Ovadia never said that, and if that was the case, so I guess that either satmar brother that is a &quot;rebbe&quot; now has Olam haba, just like the bobovers that brought their cases to a secular court in America because they did not trusted the Bet Din!!!
and to Cheesed: from were you get your info?? most of the mothers were Yiddishe mamas ashkenaziot, maybe one was a sefardic one converted to the ashkenazi way of life. so get you &quot;facts&quot; straigth before posting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Samshark and Cheesed:<br />
Sammyboy, Rav Ovadia never said that, and if that was the case, so I guess that either satmar brother that is a &#8220;rebbe&#8221; now has Olam haba, just like the bobovers that brought their cases to a secular court in America because they did not trusted the Bet Din!!!<br />
and to Cheesed: from were you get your info?? most of the mothers were Yiddishe mamas ashkenaziot, maybe one was a sefardic one converted to the ashkenazi way of life. so get you &#8220;facts&#8221; straigth before posting.</p>
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		<title>By: SamShtark</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-189962</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SamShtark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-189962</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#12 &quot;How many Sefardic judges have been on the Supreme Court? Professors? The Sefardic percentage of the Israeli Jewish population is approx. 25-30%&quot;

This has been covered elsewhere. What I read was

* Sefardim are more than 50% of the population. I don&#039;t know if this is accurate in light of the Russian aliyah, though

* there have been 4 Sefardi justices in the 60 year history of the medina. At present, of 14 &quot;justices&quot;, one is Sefardi.

* Tel Aviv University, as an example, has 93% Ashkenazi professors.

Make no mistake, there is or was much anti-Sefardi discrimination in Israel. But it has always been from the Tzionim, not from the Jews.

This is easy to understand, because the Tzionim came from Russia and Europe and the Sefardim came from Arabic speaking lands. Since the Tzionim didn&#039;t identify with Yiddishkeit, they viewed the Sefardim as non-Jews, chas v&#039;sholom. And they persecuted them bitterly in the early days including frying out many religious Sefardim and Teimanim. Of course this was as much Jew-hatred as it was discrimination against the Sefardim, but even today many people don&#039;t understand that the fine points of what happened and are just angry and bitter about the dynamics without understanding them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#12 &#8220;How many Sefardic judges have been on the Supreme Court? Professors? The Sefardic percentage of the Israeli Jewish population is approx. 25-30%&#8221;</p>
<p>This has been covered elsewhere. What I read was</p>
<p>* Sefardim are more than 50% of the population. I don&#8217;t know if this is accurate in light of the Russian aliyah, though</p>
<p>* there have been 4 Sefardi justices in the 60 year history of the medina. At present, of 14 &#8220;justices&#8221;, one is Sefardi.</p>
<p>* Tel Aviv University, as an example, has 93% Ashkenazi professors.</p>
<p>Make no mistake, there is or was much anti-Sefardi discrimination in Israel. But it has always been from the Tzionim, not from the Jews.</p>
<p>This is easy to understand, because the Tzionim came from Russia and Europe and the Sefardim came from Arabic speaking lands. Since the Tzionim didn&#8217;t identify with Yiddishkeit, they viewed the Sefardim as non-Jews, chas v&#8217;sholom. And they persecuted them bitterly in the early days including frying out many religious Sefardim and Teimanim. Of course this was as much Jew-hatred as it was discrimination against the Sefardim, but even today many people don&#8217;t understand that the fine points of what happened and are just angry and bitter about the dynamics without understanding them.</p>
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		<title>By: rexford</title>
		<link>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/63293/a-personal-look-at-the-emanuel-conflict.html#comment-189960</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rexford]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 19:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/?p=63293#comment-189960</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with #6 people who work, but have to pay to keep people in learning are second class citizens. 
I wish someone with respect in all camps would get up and say that it&#039;s no sin to work for a living. I have a friend here who is a shomer at a school; he recently went to an agent selling new apartments in a frum town, and when the guy saw his shomer&#039;s uniform, he said he didn&#039;t want to be an agent for him, as &quot;this town is really only for people who sit and learn all day, not work.&quot;
To #11 I actually heard that Rav Yakov Yosef did give permission to go to the Bagatz. So what if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with #6 people who work, but have to pay to keep people in learning are second class citizens.<br />
I wish someone with respect in all camps would get up and say that it&#8217;s no sin to work for a living. I have a friend here who is a shomer at a school; he recently went to an agent selling new apartments in a frum town, and when the guy saw his shomer&#8217;s uniform, he said he didn&#8217;t want to be an agent for him, as &#8220;this town is really only for people who sit and learn all day, not work.&#8221;<br />
To #11 I actually heard that Rav Yakov Yosef did give permission to go to the Bagatz. So what if a different Rov disagrees, even if he is bigger.</p>
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