Comments on: Yishuv Rabbi Permits Construction on Shabbos

By: The Yeshiva World » Ofrah’s Rav Appointed to Senior Education Ministry Post » Frum Jewish News

Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:21:44 +0000

[...] Rav Gisser caused a bit of a stir in the summer when he ruled non-Jews may work in construction in Ofrah on Shabbos (reported HERE on YWN). [...]

By: ych

ych — Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:30:53 +0000

#23: Clarification. The simple (and accepted by Mishna Berura) reading of the Gemara in Gittin allows telling a non-Jew to write a document on Shabbat even though if a Jew did it, it would be a Torah prohibition. (Against the Or Zarua mentioned in #24) The Gemara explains this ruling because of “Yishuv Ha’aretz”. Tashbeitz allows telling non-Jews to do m’lacha for an individual’s aliya to Israel = “y’shivat ha’aretz” – dwelling in the land. Rivash argues and states that leniency only applies to “yishuv ha’aretz” — building up/settling the land. Buying homes and increasing the Jewish presence fulfills Yishuv. Just living in a rented apartment, for example, only fulfills yeshiva not yishuv. The case at hand entailed increasing Jewish presence by building new homes and therefore I believe would be included in Yishuv and permitted even according to Rivash. (However, there might be other issues involved as well in this particular case such as the policy issues mentioned by MK Ravitz.) Because of the enormous ramifications of this issue, in my opinion, this should be decided by recognized G’dolei HaPoskim such as Rav Mordechai Eliyahu, Rav Ovadya Yosef, or Rav Y. S. Eliashiv shlita, not regular Rabbonim. Thank you all for enhancing the halachic discussion.

By: rabbi tmz

rabbi tmz — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:03:08 +0000

“At present, the rabbi’s position is a minority one and no leading Torah authorities have openly supported his decision”

Obviously Rav Shesheth, Rava, Rav Yosef Karo and the Chafetz Chaim are not considered leading Torah authorities because they openly support his decision what twisted logic!

The sad state is that today people are afraid to posken halacha when its a kula only chumras are in. When the truth is the Gemara states Kocha de’heitera adif.

By: rabbi tmz

rabbi tmz — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:59:57 +0000

Milhouse thanks that the biur halcha I was quoting your words are 100% correct

By: Milhouse

Milhouse — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:50:02 +0000

#18: the distinction is meaningless. If you can tell a goy to write, which is a melacha de’oraisa, then you can tell him to build, cook, plant, or anything else that is necessary for yishuv EY. The rule is that the Chachamim did not forbid amira lenochri when it’s necessary for yishuv Eretz Yisroel.

Now building a house or planting a field can usually be done tomorrow just as well as today, so there’s no need to have a goy do it today. But buying a house can only be done when the seller is available, so if he’s leaving after Shabbos then one may buy it on Shabbos and have the goy do the work. But in our case the construction work also can’t be done later, because any delay may mean it won’t be finished before the court acts, so it’s clear that it is permitted. This isn’t even something one must ask a shayla about, it’s a clear and undisputed din.

(The Ramo quotes the Or Zorua that it’s only permitted because the writing in question is only an issur derabonon; but the Mishna Brura points out that the OZ is a complete daas yochid on this, and every single other rishon holds that the writing we’re talking about is ossur de’oraisa, and yet telling a goy to do it is permitted.)

By: rabbi tmz

rabbi tmz — Mon, 16 Jun 2008 15:13:12 +0000

Either way here we are talking about building houses not the mikdash.

I looked up the Gemara Giitin 8b and some relevant sources it seems like Mishna Berurah in Biur Halacha Orach Chaim 306:11 is matir even d’oraisa for yishuv eretz yisroel and Teshuvos Rivash 387 would be against it. In our case it would only involve an issur of maris Ayin since there is not even Amari leNochri on Shabbos here because you can tell them to build during on a weekday. The Rivash was asked if you could make aliya on a non-jewish ship on Shabbos and he ruled that only yishuv is doche Shabbos. The case here may not be yishuv since 1. They already own the land and 2.Even if they finish building the govt may chas veshalom still demolish it and take it away

By: lawrenceyid

lawrenceyid — Sun, 15 Jun 2008 04:38:59 +0000

#21

You are right and there is much wisdom in the words you quoted.

By: lawrenceyid

lawrenceyid — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:26:32 +0000

rebshalom in #15

Let me be very, very clear.

For one to declare: IDEOLOGY TRUMPS HALACHA!

indicates that the individual does not comprehend what the Torah Hakidosha is all about. At best it highlights that the individual is a genuine ignaramous. If the person was raised with a true unadulterated Torah education then such an expression is sadly an indicator that the person is a heretic.

Good Shabbos to you both and may you both be merited to find the path of our timeless eternal Torah.

By: Joseph

Joseph — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:44:41 +0000

Ahhh, the intricacies of a non-Jewish government of Jews.

By: Milhouse

Milhouse — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:24:51 +0000

I don’t understand; it’s a clear din in Shulchan Aruch (OC 306:11), black on white, that one may buy land in Eretz Yisroel from a goy on Shabbos, and tell him to sign the contract and register it with the government, if it will be unavailable after Shabbos, because the issur of amira lenochri is overridden by yishuv Eretz Yisroel. How is this case different? If the houses are not built as quickly as possible, the court may stop the building altogether, so it’s a clear necessity, just like buying the land