My nephew will b’ezras Hashem be getting his smicha soon. He’s learning in lakewood. Just for perspective, My cousin’s son is starting the smicha program at YU-RIETS this fall. My roots are from both chassidish and Yeshivish families and I am familiar, intimately so, with the nature of chareidi life, both in the past and now. I’ve sat down with my nephew, with sons of friends, with my own peers who studied in Beis Medresh there.

I’ve taught in a chareidi school, lived in a chareidi neighborhood, learned with a yeshivish chevrusa, written for a chareidi newspaper, and worked in my father’s (a’h) store dealing with a largely chariedi clientele. I’ve even raised money for a chareidi educational program in Israel. I don’t know how many times I’ve been on Rechov Sorotzkin. DO you mean by Kiryat Itri? By Mattersdorf? In the Belz neighborhood? By Bais Yaakov??

I completely agree with you that someone who puts themselves within the chutzos Hatorah is obliged to listen to the authority of the rabonnim. (Not the balabatim, mind you, or the tznius committee hoodlums, but the Rabbonim and those they designate). What I expect is that schools will judge favourably and give opportunities to people who earnestly want to follow their derech, not refuse to take them a priori because of a chashash of what might be or a simple sfardi name.

“Torah is not subjective or pick and choose.” You’re right, it isn’t. Since it all derives from Veohavto lereacho komocho anyways, let’s start with that mitzvah. And within the firmament of Torah you will find elu voelu divrei elokim chayim. Too many have forgotten that.

Torahpal, I think I had the same teacher. The saying is familiar. But I wish i could say honestly that all of the apparent wrongs that this story brought to the forefront were honest mistakes, or overzealousness in protecting the virtue of our families and communities. If we are not prepared to work to have a positive Hashpo’oh on those who are not quite on the derech, or even to take their children into the one place where they will get that Hashpo’oh, what does it say about our confidence in what we are teaching our kids, and have been for decades? what does it say about our confidence in our own education that our parents sacrificed for? What is a positive frum life for if not to have an influence on your fellow Jew? How can we tell people to become baalei tshuva, learn with them, encourage them, watch them grow in Torah, and then tell them – Oh, sorry, your daughter can’t go to the school we’ve been asking you to emulate, because she has non frum Grandparents or cousins, or she has spent too much time playing piano, or violin, or flute until now?

Why?

BIGKHUNA says,
“Any so called Yeshiva which will not accept a student based on their minhagim should be banned and no student should be allowed to attend that school.”

No, no, no!!! Don’t any of you get it??? There are loads of Sephardi kids in our schools here in Israel. But they, as “TURKEYNECK” so correctly pointed out, are machni’a themselves to the system without all the high profile noise the rejected ones are making. (For example, if I decided to send my daughter to a chssidic school, should they accept her, even though I do not wear that garb, I do not conduct my home in a chassidic manner, my wife covers her hair differently, and my daughter dresses differently than they do? I think everyone here would agree that it would be silly for them to accept her unless we were ready to conform somewhat to their cultural and hashkafic expectations). These kids are not being rejected based on minhagim, but based on the way the family conducts their affairs and their actions. The biggest proof that this family was not mat’im for the Ashkenazi Bais Yaakov system is that they took the school to the Supreme Court!! Is that the way a respectable religious Jew acts? Israeli Ashkenazim don’t, and unfortunately, the Sephardim have a track record of calling the police, the courts, and any other authority to get their way, instead of acting appropriately. (Please don’t get defensive or offended by this; it’s a fact and a normal way of life here where we live. Very par for the course.)

YICHUSDIK, you would do alot better if you would first take the time to learn and understand our system before you sit there and bash it, erroneously assuming that you do understand.

I had a teacher who once told us, “Sometimes people try to act so ‘so-called open minded’ that the only thing that was accomplished was that their brains fell out in the process. But they were never really thinking to begin with.”

Coffe Room link: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/

I’ve always noticed that they who have the biggest chips on their shoulders and have all of this hateful chareidi bashing are very similar to those who sit back and love to bash YU. The biggest similarity is that all of their bashing is so embarrassingly uneducated and based on third hand misinformation. How many times have you been to Lakewood? Rechov Sorotzkin? How many yeshivish kollel yungerleit have you sat down with to talk to. I can guess the number. THE BIG FAT ZERO. Because if you did, you wouldn’t be talking like this.

Furthermore, you’re absolutely correct in saying that if you want to get your kid into a good school you will be judged on your tzniyus level and willingness to bend to authority. OF COURSE! G-dfearing and torah abiding Jews need to be machnia themselves to Torah authority, emunas chachamim, daas Torah, and Rabbanim in order to succeed. Torah is not subjective or pick and choose. (But don’t feel bad, you’re not the only one who couldn’t deal with that. Korach couldn’t either.) And if one’s level of tzniyus is not on par with the school’s, why would he want to send his kid there, and why in the world should they accept him?! Just because there are kids there who have internet access that the school doesn’t know about? What does that have to do with anything???? Oh, so maybe you’re saying that because there are parents that don’t belong there and slipped in because they hid what they do wrong, ok, so let’s take in EVERYONE who refuses to abide by our rules and wants to do their own thing. ???!!!!???!!!??!!

In the case of my fried, if they had bothered to check they would have heard nothing negative whatsoever about the family, and in fact only positive.

So tell me – was it correct that your friend had to change her name to Berkowitz? Is it fair that my friend had to change his name to xxxxberman?

I do not believe that this is what Hashem wants from us – perhaps I’m old fashioned!

You know what, though? there are still some places where this kind of assumptionist tzidkus is frowned upon. Boruch Hashem I know gerer, lubavitcher and bobover chasidim who don’t judge, they just love their fellow Jew. Boruch Hashem the people who Rav Noach Weinberg has influenced (He should be well) by and large don’t act this way. Boruch Hashem Individuals from all streams of chareidi life sometimes buck the trend. Most, alas, are too intimidated to get out of the judgement game. Maybe the chip you see on my shoulder comes from a wearines with a lifetime of watching this perpetuate itself, and a deep sadness that we have learned so little, we who should be the first to learn, about true ahavas Yisroel and bringing the geulah.

And by the way, sbztcyy, recognizing evil within a context of so much potential for good is often easier than doing so elsewhere. The chareidi world should know better. So when I point out that there is rishus involved, I am not absolving any other element of Am Yisroel from its own responsibility for its own infection, its own blindness, its own intolerance.

I wish that I was just ranting, but my experiences within our community tell me otherwise. There is a real problem, and we have been hiding our heads in the sand about it for decades. If this was an isolated incident, the particular circumstances of this particular girl would matter more. Indeed, there were six more students who were rejected at the same time for the malignant crime of hasving gone to the wrong pre-school.

I hope that I have answered your questions thus far without anger or rancor. As for your assertion that I am in some way “anti-Semitic”, I don’t know you and you don’t know me. If you did, you would know how ineffably absurd your assertion is. The only other person who has ever called me an anti-Semitic was a Palestinian who was trying to convince me that Palestinians are Semites too. So you are in good company. I hope you are comfortable there. If I did offend with my “judgement”, I ask mechila from all here. Hopefully I’ll have started a trend for Elul.