Your comments -each of you respectively- reflect an individual who is very opinionated.

but there is an old rule that reads in hebrew as follows: דעת תורה היפוך דעת בעל הבית which essentially means that The Torah’dige opinion generally defies Logic.

Your opinions being they are all valid logically. But that’s what they are, ‘Logical’ at best! And What Satmar Ruv based his Shitah on was solely on Shas and Poskim in every step of the way…

So go ahead and express yourself. But on the same token let’s again all remember the teaching: ‘דעת תורה היפוך דעת בעל הבית’

I don’t condone the State of Israel, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t live here!

Obviously all of you don’t know what it means to be so pure and to want to be as close as you possible can to the Ribono Shel Olam.

You would rather live in a country that allows to lowest of morals that can ever be imagine and take their money than to live in the land Promised to the Jews by Hash-m..

The State of Israel has nothing to do with why I am here. I grew up learning chumash and neviim and felt that this was where I belong.

But let me say this, anybody who can malshin to Goyim , shake their hands is worse than any secular zionist in my book..

{46} Not to mention here the activities of the Zionist movement by the war world II, were they blocked all methods to help Jews survive using there indignity slang רק בדם תיהי’ לנו הארץ. (only with blood we will get the land עפ’ל) as we all know the history of Dr. Costner, Chaim Weitzman,שר”י (see ספר מן המצר written with blood by the Nitre Rosh Yeshiveh Rav Michual Dov Weismandel ZT’L,) and not to talk about Dr. Dehan that they brutally murder him just for not being in one mind with them, and not to bring up the countless attacks by the Arabs ר’’ל that was a direct outcome of the התגרות from the מתנחלים .

Just to link the news posted in YWN of killed IDF’s direct from Arabs or mistakenly by the Israeli military will be endless. So were there “senseless bloodshed” (Yiddish Blood), or not?

{67} Just for the fact; the paid announcement in the New York Times (1958) was written (with advice of R’ Yoel z’l and other gedolem) by REB AVIGDER MILLER Z”L not a satmar chusid at all.

{37} There is an old syfer named תיקון עולם that was published before the war II. You could find there a list of over 150 Gedolim from that particular generation that all of them are writing clearly in agreement with Satmar Ruv ZT”L.

{69} From your language I could see that you are very ignorant in the SHITEH of the satmar ruv R’ Yoel z’l, I would strongly recommend you to take a peek into it and see what’s all about, (P.S. so far, no one in the world has challenged one בירור of the VaYoel Moishe, ניתי ספר וניחזי )

The money part is the only one that is not so clear.
Just b/c I dislike Zionists doesn’t mean I can’t take their money. I don’t like the morals in America either and still would have no problem taking Foodstamps and WIC if I were qualified. This is not halacha, therefore I am not sure it is fair to put someone like me in the same boat as the seculars.

Those Gedolim might have been against the Zionists but I highly doubt they were against the idea of living in EY.

Also, one thing I find troubling, while there are many faults with the founding of the State of Israel, what about the belief that EVERYTHING is from Hash-m.. Why did Hash-m make this happen if not to tell klal yisrael that they have the ability to come home?

And when I say Gedolim I’m not limited to the leaders of Hungarian and Polish Jewery such as The מנחת אלעזר Rav of Munkatch ZT”L or The Great Rabbis Of Belz ZT”L or the previous Rebbes of Lubavitch ZT”L etc. But it’s also the Great Brisker Ruv Zt”l or Reb Elchonen Wasserman Zt”l, or any other Rosh Yeshiva from that generation. This goes beyond any geographic boundaries. Whenever zionist movements where starting to form prior to the holocaust, they were all very strongly voicing their opinion and it sounded just like Satmar Ruv ZT”L in our generation, with one major exception. Satmar Ruv was already faced with the tragic fact of the existance of the State (Medina) רח”ל.

So you may disagree if you wish, but most of the Frum who are open minded and well-aquanted with the writings of the aforementioned Gedolim ZT”L, wouldn’t find it hard to believe, that had any of them been faced with a created jewish state, they would undoubtedly have taken the exact same position (read: ‘Shita’) as Satmar Ruv ZT”L.

Most of you who will disagree, I urge you to read their writings redarding Zionism ASAP. Then take a deep breath and see if you get my point.

And to #74. Absolutely Right! In fact even Satmar Ruv himself was a Citizen and was known as The Yerushalmi Ruv. But do you realize there are major conditions, that calls upon your complete seperation not just from the funding they provide but also to despise them (The Zionim) on a constant basis. You can understand that better through the example you brought from R’Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld who lived in the Old Yishuv. Yes, reading his book ” Guardian of Jerusalem” is exactly meant to show you how much they disliked the zionists.

These great Tzadikim were living in Eretz Yisroel under these conditions without being impressed for a moment by any of the Israeli superiorities or achievements such as architecture, inferstructure, Military, Security measures, etc. etc. So difficult to obey, Really difficult. And my ggod friend, if you can be 100% sure that you’re capable of obeying by these rules, than I must say אשרי חלקך, as you have the opportunity to learn torah with Kedusha and Tahara.

That’s enough for now…

There is nothing wrong with frum Torahdig zionism.. I guess you must skip out parts of the Torah and davening..

I am not machshiv, nor condone the State of Israel. There could be many interpretations to not having a government before the coming of Moshiach. Could it be that there shouldn’t be a “frum ” government?
As far as I am concerned, they are not represenative of Jews , they are anti- Torah..

However, how do you explain R’Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld and everybody who lived in the Old Yishuv? If you read the book” Guardian of Jerusalem” (Artscroll) you will see how much they disliked the zionists. Yet they lived and learned Torah in Yerushalayim.

This kind of extremism leads ppl to think it’s okay to shake hands with those that seek to destroy us.
Ppl can list gemaras all they want but they just interpret them as they see fit. Just like Lubavitchers like to interpret Sanhedrin 98..

Do you call the chassidim in Meah Shearim/Geula zionists too???
Please don’t confuse secular zionism with true Torah zionism.. unless you skip out the words at the end of the seder ” L’shana Habaa b’yerushalayim habenuya”.
There is no issur to live in EY. Stop making it seem like the frum Torahdick ppl here are apikorsim..
Honestly, this letter reminds me of the Misyavnim, or the Malshinim that we talk about in Shemone Esrei.

Malchus haminos just delays the divine redemption.

העברת פי ה” הוא לא תצלח

Let’s be mispalel