Comments on: Four Israeli Teens Suspected Of Stabbing Arab To Death In Jerusalem

By: Walkthewalk

Walkthewalk — Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:49:35 +0000

I really hoped to finally reach a point of clarity in this discussion, but it seems that after acknowledging that goyim aren’t free to kill you threw that value out the window in your next post.

I agree that the media is biased, but I constantly fight to reveal the truth, and don’t just take the equally biased ‘Jewish’ sources at face value either. That’s why I was able to meet friends of the Jewish teen who stabbed the Arab and found out that he often went out in search of violent confrontations with Arab, and this wasn’t a case of self-defense. Unless your definition of self defense would allow for nuking all our enemies.

Suggesting that there aren’t Jewish gangs because they’d protect against terrorists is stupid. Gangs leave security to the IDF. Suggesting that the Shin Bet spends more time or money seeking Jews is stupid and demonstrably false.

By: AriInMD

AriInMD — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 18:11:32 +0000

Expert, Your username is as baseless as your assumptions of what was happening in this situation. It saddens me that you are so eager to defend or minimizing the killing of non-Jews–both in this specific situation and in general. Our Torah is a Toras Chaim, and all people are created b’Tzelem Elokim. The worst thing about your comments is that it didn’t even show regret for a situation that has caused harm to so many people.

By: expert

expert — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 16:53:48 +0000

“Religious Jews—Chareidi and Zioni—walk through the Arab quarter the old city everyday, in full religious garb, and aren’t harmed” – aren’t harmed if they walk in groups and during the day time, aren’t harmed when carrying a machine-gun; anyway every few months there is another assault/murder by arabs on Jews in Yerushalaim. Just because you live there doesn’t mean that you have a full picture – Israeli media is controlled by left-wingers, and tries to brainwash the public(successfully, as evident from your posts).
Please don’t make up “Jewish gangs going around beating up goyim” – unfortunately there is no such thing. If there was, there would probably be no russian-goyim nazis and arab-terrorists in Eretz Isroel. There are secular Jewish criminal gangs that target everybody(mostly other Jews) – but there are no those that target only goyim. Shin Bet spends much more resources on controlling right-wing(in another country they would be called centrists-most of them don’t promote any violence) Jews than they do on controlling arab terrorists. Israeli courts are famous for always siding with arabs who are in dispute with Jews. You already live in your ideal dream world – Jews are prosecuted by other Jews for trying to defend themselves – goyim that persecute Jews in a “Jewish” state are not prosecuted. Enjoy it for the short time left before Moshiach comes.

By: Walkthewalk

Walkthewalk — Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:41:37 +0000

Religious Jews—Chareidi and Zioni—walk through the Arab quarter the old city everyday, in full religious garb, and aren’t harmed. They don’t have to fight their way through Arabs when entering the Shechem Gate, even though it’s right across the street from the Palestinian Central Bus Station. Your lack of awareness of Jerusalem and its neighborhoods is troubling. Why don’t you come here, so I can give you a tour of real life in Jerusalem?

Israel’s treatment of murderers is appalling and you’ve pointed out some great examples of that. The choices with murderers aren’t either death or freedom, but jail, rehab, and exile are other valid punishments, and should be considered when Jews kill Arabs and didn’t need to. I’m puzzled by your obvious desire to live in a peaceful world on the one hand and your insistence on the goodness of Jewish gangs going around beating up goyim, and sometimes killing them on the other. Again, I think it’s important that you actually come to Israel, and Jerusalem, and see it with your own eyes, not just through the lenses of foreign media. Be well.

By: expert

expert — Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:53:21 +0000

You made an interesting point about arabs valuing killing Jews so much as to kill each other. However, I think the pshat is that in arab culture, a human life has a very little value.
Hiding a weapon is not an indicator of ill intent – even in a clear-cut self-defense case people want to avoid legal trouble.
Why is it that you have to say that “It’s far more likely that they Jews didn’t need to kill the arab”? Do an experiment: dress up as a hareidi, and take a walk(don’t pack heat) in an arab hood at night – then start assuming those boys to likely to kill for no need(that is if you survive the ordeal).
Why don’t you reserve all your righteous desire to punish murderers for the arabs? In Israel, an arab that kills a Jew, gets TV in the cell/conjugal visits/hero status at home/gets out in a few years as part of some”exchange”. While a Jew that kills an arab, gets a life in prison without all the perks that arabs get. So where are you when the judenrat Israeli mafia lets another arabic murderer go free?!
As far as halacha goes, the beis din does not give misa for killing a goy(must be shocking for you!) – there might be misa b’dey shomaim. In other words, killing a goy might be a personal aveira – but we have no halachic obligation to punish a yid for a goy-killing. On the other hand, we do have a chiuv of pidyon shvuim. Now, there is also an inyan of “darkey sholom” which might force us to punish a yid that killed a goy; in this case there is no sholom either way – no matter how much you try to kiss up to arabs, they’ll skin you alive just for being a Jew.

By: Walkthewalk

Walkthewalk — Sat, 26 Feb 2011 17:44:53 +0000

It’s called a time difference. I live in Eretz Yisrael, so even though this comment will appear on shabbos US time, it’s been over here for a while. Jewish life is more important-not only to me, but to Arabs as well-than Arab life. That’s why they are willing to kill each other to harm even one Jew.

The Jew in this case hid the weapon after using it, so he wouldn’t be caught with it. It’s far more likely that they Jews didn’t need to kill the arab, and if that comes out in the trial/investigation the Jews should be punished. I will reserve my judgement for when the details of the case come out, and I would recommend you do the same. Wouldn’t you feel foolish if the kids admitted to deliberately killing an Arab for reasons that halacha doesn’t support?

By: expert

expert — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 16:11:21 +0000

#6
Keeps you up at 5:32 in the morning, doesn’t it?
First, I don’t like the killings of goyim/non-goyim either. In fact I love all human beings(even love the arabs); just love the Jewish people infinitely more. As much as we might put our head in the sand, the fact is that we have an undeclared war with arabs. They use every opportunity to cowardly hurt the weakest of our people. Being “fair”/”neutral” when our women/children are targeted is immoral and equivalent to being “for killings”.
Second, I have studied in major litvashe yeshivos(non of that YU stuff) myself, and can show lots of halachic sources for the obligation to defend yiden from goyim.
As far as details of this case go, don’t try to get the truth from the israeli police – they are very politicized and famously corrupt, and often would sacrifice a Jew to get a good PR.

By: Walkthewalk

Walkthewalk — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 10:32:23 +0000

I used both logic AND halacha to make my case. I’m not going to try and convince you, but at least clarify why I disagree with you. First, I don’t like killing, but sometimes-of course-it’s justified. I don’t believe that killing Arabs just for being goyim is right, good, or approved by gedolim. Second, the reason I hold that belief is that I’ve studied in yeshivot my whole life, and have seen the halachic sources forbidding and condemning such actions throughout the ages. If you agree with those logical and traditional points, then our disagreement might be in the details of this case, which will come out. If that’s where we disagree, I’m okay with that, but if not I stand by my previous posts.

By: expert

expert — Fri, 25 Feb 2011 01:34:43 +0000

#4
So you are incapable to argue your point using logic and have to turn to insults?-Doesn’t bother me.
A Chilul H is when a confused self-hating am-hooretz such as you, makes every effort to defend our enemy and accuse our people. Does being “fair” at the expense of another yid make you feel superior? You exhibit a real sinas chinom in your quest to seek goyishe approval. Please seek professional counseling to cure your Jewish Stockholm Syndrome. I have a sofek: should I daven for your refua in Refoeinu or Velamalshinim?

By: Walkthewalk

Walkthewalk — Thu, 24 Feb 2011 22:52:06 +0000

I can’t believe you’ve actually wrote what you did on such a public site. What a chilul HaShem! I’m glad that the moderator allowed these posts through, as it presents a glimpse into non-God fearing Jews, like yourself. From the JPost, “According to police, it is suspected that the attack was nationalistic, and police said they believe the suspects saw the Arab youth walking with his friend and decided to attack him.” It’s clear that you’ve never been to that area of Jerusalem at night, because getting lost in the crowds of people near there is easy. Nor are you an “expert”and you don’t have any knowledge (more than the little the papers have reported) of this case. Lastly, your lack of basic Torah awareness as the gemara says that “telling the Jews ‘lo sirtsach’ again at Sinai is to include murder of goyim” is sad, and I pray for your refuah shleima.