Comments on: YWN MAILBAG: To All Parents of Boys in Yeshiva in Israel

By: dov29

dov29 — Fri, 09 Mar 2012 18:50:20 +0000

How come nobody mentions the significance of the word “AD?” If you are “drunk” you have passed the limit of “AD.”

A “Ben Torah” should know his limits. If not, he should not be drinking alcoholic beverages in the first place.

By: bja613

bja613 — Thu, 08 Mar 2012 23:38:53 +0000

Food for thought to apply to this topic. living in Israel my children are exposed to alot of smoking and as a result many children can be seen w/ cigarretes on purim. Some 8 yrs back when my 10 year old was droppping hints that he also desired to do so, my wife went ou and bought a pack of cigaretes and on purim morning she sat with him in the privacy of our bedroom and they both attempted to smoke their first cigarette together. After they coughed their faces off, my son didn’t feel the need to sneak behind our building and smoke w/ the boys. The next year he asked my wife to break the pack out again and they TOGETHER made a second attempt. The next year their meeting was not necessary as he already got it out of his system. Since it was done in a not naughty way, he didn’t have ‘mayim genovim’ pushing him.
Many of my wife’s friends who were horrified by my wife’s approach are now dealing with children who at the age of 18 are addicted to smoking.
The point is that you have to deal with the metzious instead of talking in terms that apply only to a perfect world. Be there for your children in a real way instead of attempting to dictate the unrealistic.
I believe this story has applications to the present topic.

By: writersoul

writersoul — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 19:53:18 +0000

Um, just to add, three boys from my neighborhood got arrested for underage drinking. A man in my neighborhood got arrested and detained overnight for giving out booze to teenagers. A teen got arrested and quite a few points on his license for drunk driving and underage drinking.
Get it into your heads, people. It’s against the law to give people under age 21 liquor. There is such a thing as dina d’malchusa dina. Maybe we’re accustomed to giving wine to kids because of the ‘sacramental purposes’ clause, but you’ll be hard pressed to find a judge who will let you off for underage drinking or supplying alcohol to a minor because of sacramental purposes.

By: Rebyid39

Rebyid39 — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 12:43:48 +0000

Just wondering: why is it that with something like mitzitzah bipeh people act like its “yahuraig vih-ahl yaavor” and refuse to even contemplate stopping the practice because “azoiy hut de tateh getun” even though a baby recently died from it, but with drinking on Purim, they are quick to condemn and demand it be stopped??? Purim has always been about drinking, and being mikayaim “ad dilo yudah.” If someone got drunk under the table (as often happened), it was all part of the fun. Nowadays, if today’s balebatim would have it their way, Purim would involve davening vasikin and learning in Yeshivas Mordechai Hatzadik all day! Purim has never been “celebrated” this way. I understand that Yom Kippur is Yom Kippurim, but when did Purim become like Yom Kippur?? For the record, I am a clean-shaven middle aged ‘balebus.’ Not some drunk Yeshiva bochur. Let the bochurim enjoy Purim the way it has always been enjoyed!

By: yosef sidney

yosef sidney — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 08:57:21 +0000

We have an obligation to teach our children about the
facts of alchol. But when we send our children out to yeshiva’s where we cannot see what is going on,the RABBANIM and ROSH YESHIVA’S ARE RESPONSIBLE. 18-19-20
are still CHILDREN. If they act without responsibilty
on Purim how can you tell me they are ready to get married? We should all see alot of nachas and gezunt.

By: swordfish

swordfish — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 05:09:57 +0000

I really feel as a bochur growing up in yeshiva is the only place where drinking ,specifically on purim is a way to reach a level of ruchnius that can only reached by drinking .this may be correct but to talmidim who are still developing there brains ability to understand what there rebbe is asying get instead a strong message not from a regular guy on the street who cars what that guy does ,but from his rebbe that drinking is now not only okay but that is an outlet to hashem that must be used to become closer to hashem,purim is where the drinking part of our mesorah begins to influence our society in the ugliest ways ,whatever your feelings are towards drinking should be done should not be ,just look if there is one family in your neigborhood suffering and saying tehillim there should be a hafagana whatever something needs to cghang i think it should start with havein one year were no rebbes get drunk see how that goes down .Maybe then kids will have less braindamage .

By: Chamor HaDor

Chamor HaDor — Wed, 07 Mar 2012 01:54:29 +0000

I witnessed a similar incident a number of years ago. I was in a neighbor’s house, a prominent rebbi in a prominent yeshiva on purim night as he hosted a mesibah for his talmidim. Hatzoloh was called by another boy to the scene for a chaver who was drunk.

When the first hatzoloh guy walked in, he used some code words (which I found out later were indicative of a high priority emergency) to call for backup. Apparently the boy was blue because he was barely breathing. The rebbi, also drunk (which shocked me) came into the room and demanded to know who let hatzoloh into his house an that they leave. They, as did I, tried to explain to him what was happening but sadly, he was too drunk to really comprehend. He became physical with the hatzoloh men and one of them told him if he wanted them out of the house, he should call 911 – which he promptly did. There was NO stopping him, he was out of control. This is a man I know for years and his behavior was uncharacteristically shocking to me.
When the police arrived (they came rather fast, I don’t know what he said to them), they asked who called and why. One of the hatzoloh men seized the opportunity and told the officer that “HE” called because the rebbi was hindering their treating of a serious victim. (by this time they had put a tube into the bochurs throat).

Point is: Boozing up causes physical harm AS WELL AS chilul Hash-m IN EVERY WAY!!! Forgive me for being repetitive, but THERE IS NO MITZVAH in getting wasted.

Rebbeim MUST KNOW NOT TO PLY TALMIDIM WITH ALCOHOL and MUST SET EXAMPLES by themselves REFRAINING from drinking to beyond “ad deloi yodah”.

I really wonder how many such cases there are every purim.

By: That Big Bear Again

That Big Bear Again — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:29:00 +0000

While breaking the law is not a good idea, weight is the main factor in alcohol tolerance, and prior exposure is also a part of it.

A 16 year old 6 foot tall 200 plus pound shtarker can handle alcohol, but should not be served a drop of it for legal reasons and because he probably isn’t mature enough not to test his boundaries. A slender 20 year old bochur in EY where 18 is the legal age should watch out even though he is legally allowed to drink, as he might not be physically able to handle much alcohol.

By: no nonsense

no nonsense — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:14:32 +0000

FYI:
1. The Bais Yosef, Rabbeinu Epfrayim and the Rosh say that one should NOT get drunk – it is a sever issur and ther is no greater issur than that. (said by Hilchos Purim – Tur)
2. Binyan Olam (sefer written for Yeshiva Bochurim) chapter 1012 – “all this is without a doubt wicked and wrong – yeshiva bochurim should not get drunk, rather they should learn the laws of Pesach.
3. Rema, Mishna Berura, and Pri Migadim – drink more than one is used to ad then go to sleep.
4. Mi’iri on that Gemara – we were never comammanded to get drunk.
5. Ba’al Hamor says that we do not Pasken like that Gemara.
6. Chochmas Manoach and the Ran say that it is improper to get drunk.
7. to explain arrur haman and baruch mordechai – see the rashash who says that they had a piyut which was very long beg. with Arur Haman – and during that Piyut make a mistake.
8. On the now famous Lechaim video Rabbi Dr. Abraham Twersky speaks about the grave danger of under 21 drinking and says it is ASUR for teenagers to drink ANY amount on Purim or Simchas Torah.

There are many others who have written about the grave dangers of teenagers drinking.

By: my_opinion

my_opinion — Tue, 06 Mar 2012 18:25:26 +0000

I heard a great shiur about women and Purim and the main topic was how we connect Hishhtadus and Emuna and when to let go and let Hashem do it without our “help”. One such point was about Purim: men and bochurim who get drunk when they do it out of love for a mitzva r able to reach big madregos, the hard part if for the women to do their mitzva which is what Ester did after all the Hishtadlus: she gave up control and left it in hands of Hashem. We should do the same, our mitzva on Purim is to respect this mitzva even if it makes us feel like we r losing controlof the situation… That does NOT negate the fact that men and bochurim need to understand WHY they r drinking which will usualy cause them not to dangerously intoxicate themselves. Be careful and let go! Purim Sameach