Comments on: Clifton NJ: Reform Temple has a fire

By: susshow

susshow — Thu, 07 Dec 2006 00:32:19 +0000

That last email changes my opinion of you. Yasher Koach.

By: FrumForum

FrumForum — Wed, 06 Dec 2006 21:01:55 +0000

All,
Thank you for setting me straight. I was definitely too harsh in calling them all “reshoim” (however, I do maintain my position on their leaders and the institution).
I’m all for kiruv – I’m an avid fan & supporter of R. Amnon Yitzhak shlita, along with other local kiruv organizations.
Sometimes, when you see people doing things like that, it gets you all stirred up, and you go overboard.
I apologize for hurting your feelings, and I will not make such stark statements any more.
– Ahavas Yisroel rules –

By: susshow

susshow — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:23:00 +0000

FF, your hard core, “Boruch hashem” let them all burn… attitude is very disturbing. I think that you need to check your ways and do Teshuva. You may hate their ways (even though most of them don’t know any better), but to hate THEM?!

I think that you are out of your mind if you want to Drei a Chofetz Chaim to say that it is ok to say Boruch hashem that the place burned down.
I know, personaly, one Reform Rabbi. He is a Tzadik. He may not know better on may issues, and I’m teaching him, and he is being Mikabel many things. If he would read your comments it would be Appaling.
TAKE BACK WHAT YOU SAY!!!
You ask “who more hates Hashem then these people” I say that if you hate your fellow Jew, you hate Hashem. You need to do a serious Cheshbon Hanefesh, perhaps talk to a Godol, about your Kruma Hashkafos.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 23:00:56 +0000

ff,

If you truly believe that “The masses of the movement are 100% considered “tinokos sh’nishb’au”, then perhaps a more nuanced post would lend clarity to your position.

Such as,

This Temple was an institution of heresy, and it’s no tragedy that it was destroyed. Hopefully we can reach out to these congregants in their pain, and make a Kiddush H-Shm by demonstrating how a Yid behaves.

We must be careful not to use the label “Reshaim” indiscriminately, as you detract from the seriousness of your position. It is apparent from your subsequent post that you do understanding the variation amongst the many; perhaps the first was written in righteous haste .

By: tek

tek — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:48:02 +0000

frum forum-point taken …however,calling them reshaim still wont bring them closer…May I ask you what you did today -besides signing here- to be mekarev these “kidnapped babies”?

By: FrumForum

FrumForum — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 22:29:52 +0000

susshow:
I’m NOT out of my mind; rather I am following the instructions of the Chofetz Chaim, who in the Mishna Brura (I think the first siman, in the Shaar Hatziyun) quotes Dovid Hamelech as saying “Tachlis sin’a s’neisim” (I utmostely hate them) – refering to the “son’ei Hashem” (haters of Hashem).
Who else in this generation hates the Ribbono Shel Olam more than Reform/Conservative? It’s not the Muslims – they pray to their understanding of the Borei Olam. It’s not even the Notzrim (X-ians) – for them trinity is OK.

tek:
I am all for narrowing the gap. However, the reform movement is led by people who mislead their congregants to a campain against the Torah. The masses of the movement are 100% considered “tinokos sh’nishb’au” (kidnapped babies) – who are “exempt” from shmiras haMitzvos, since they were never brought up that way. Unfortunately, this classification does not include the “rabbis” and their houses of worship.

Sarah:
I sadly once encountered a reform (maybe it was conservative) “siddur” – Hashem Yerachem!!! what they ommitted!!! gone are all korbanos! (Klal Yisroel’s largest tefila is “yibone beis hamikdash…” for korbanos, and they refuse to even mention it.) Gone are all the heilige distinctions between the roles of men & women. Gone are the “hivdilanu min ha’amim” (Hashem has separated us from the nations)

I don’t just say these “right-wing” statements out of pure anomosity – it’s based on reality & hashkafa.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:45:59 +0000

I don’t have access to statistics on the knowledge of Reform “Rabbis”, so there might very well be a majority who are knowledgeably and purposefully rejecting Judaism, and intentionally leading others astray.

At the same time, I don’t think we can conjecture that they all fall into this category- some of the very same sincere yet clueless followers have deep enough feelings to desire to get “ordained”, and continue the tragic cycle. I do agree with Motcha and esg78, that most Reform clergy might not be as innocent as their flocks.

By: tek

tek — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:59:38 +0000

kudos sarah!!!

By: esg78

esg78 — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:41:32 +0000

Sarah said,
“Most individuals, even those ordained as “Rabbis”, who identify with the Reform movement are far from purposeful rejecters of Judaism”

I have no quarrel with the rest of your post, but my impression of “most” Reform rabbis is that they indeed are “purposeful rejecters of Judaism” who are choteh u’machtie as ha rabim to this very day.

By: Motcha

Motcha — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 14:32:03 +0000

Sarah, I sometimes wonder about the leaders of the Reform movement, since I think some of them are sincere and purposeful rejecters. Todays Reform “rabbis,” who knows? A large percentage of them have openly stated that they don’t even believe in G-d.

But in any case your post is wisely-written.