Earlier in this thread rebdoniel made a comment that had implications about Tosafos and he was severely castigated. R’ Moshe struggled mightily with that Tosafos for much the same reason as rebdoniel (though he expressed himself VERY differently):
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14675&st=&pgnum=292
My point is not to justify what rebdoniel said, but to point out that it is l’maaseh a kashya.