Reply To: Kosher Dunkin Donuts in Brooklyn?

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Interesting discussion.

Agav, the DD by Cedarhurst on Rockaway Turnpike has only Cholov Yisrael whole and nonfat milk (the half and half is not) and its open 24 hours [someone goes even on YK and Pesach to check out – and it always has Jews there- r’l probably even on Shabbos!]. So if you want Dunkin Donuts and cholov yisrael milk – then that’s where you should go. Under the Vaad of 5 Towns and Far Rockaway (as mentioned above). Other places have cholov yisrael milk available – but I heard someone claim that by the fact that there is both at one location, then it upon being open is not cholov yisrael milk (ie the worker can just add from non-CY). I think that having only regular milk that is cholov yisrael that mitigates the issue. But I am not a posek, nor am I sure that one can’t rely on the milk at “mixed” DDs.

Note though that most syrups etc. are dairy (ie not CY) but under reliable hechsherim. The one that is parve upon that last time I checked (early in the summer) was vanilla (the klal is dairy until proven otherwise from having asked to look at a number of syrups – the chocolate syrup is dairy equipment to my recollection). A random klal for coffee stores in general is that vanilla syrup for coffee is usually kosher and pareve. Again I am not a posek. The donuts are made with powder as mentioned. I think few people (though I do know they exist) make exception for powdered – or maybe just for kids for example – either all or nothing. Actual cooked things is more complex as the microwave issue is real ( I know of a 2nd hand story – from the person who called the kashrus agency upon getting word one of the worker’s friend heated up their supper in the microwave) – it was outside of brooklyn/cedarhurst – the kashrus person went down, figured things out, and likely kashered the microwave [not sure exactly what was done but the baal machshir took immediate action to his credit]. Isolated incidents don’t necessarily ruin the kashrus l’halacha to my knowledge.

On the general argument, my two perutahs.

The American velt does not treat Cholov Yisrael as an issur gamur. Many kashrus agencies don’t kasher like it was devar issur for example (I heard this from a reliable source in the industry). Ignoring if milk might be now an issue of treifos, cholov stam is a machlokes rishonim/achronim to my understanding from hearing from those that learned it. There is one view that holds its a lo plug (no exceptions even if we are sure the milk does not have any non-kosher milk in it). There is a view that holds that if one is 100% sure that the milk is cow’s milk – there is no issur on it. Reb Moshe obviously held like one side (and the Chazon Ish agreed al pi sevara), and many others held the other opinion. I personally do not eat cholov stam – and try to be particular but l’maaseh unless you’re Rabbi is one of yichidim – there is general consensus to treat it is as a chumra (- note chumras are not automatically /usually baseless [as many blog convos mislead one to believe], many are halachically quite sound and preferable – think about this: if one finds 100 chumras that are kept by some and not others, when Eliyahu comes – not a few of those 100 will be correct and makelim will have done something wrong – not that it’s wrong in a punishment sense if based on sound logic but in a legal sense).

Assuming the previous paragraph is true (chumra vs kula), I believe the dinim that apply are like other situations where there are two places – one machmir, one makel. When one goes to a place that is machmir, there is (simplistically) a need to be machmir (even if one is from a place that is makel), and if one is machmir goes to one who is makel, one can’t be publicly machmir (they are allowed to follow their chumra privately.) This is of course talking about chumras – not if one felt that it was forbidden m’ikar hadin. But considering that Reb Moshe, , many rabbanim of yesteryear in America, Rav Belsky, Rav Ahron Kotler (see Mishpacha article from a few weeks back) the OU, YU, OK, Star-K etc etc. all say it is ok at least m’ikar hadin – no one really can say otherwise BIKAR HADIN. Maybe it is the right thing not to eat it, but it is not a certain wrong thing to eat. Therefore for a need, one can give to someone else without issue even if they are accustomed to treat it is as not Kosher. This would be though to give it to someone who is not particular. A person who is accustomed to not eat it would be forbidden to be given cholov stam even by a Talmid of Reb Moshe because the recipient they personally hold can’t be eaten (because of the concept that was mentioned in another post that someone who treats permissible as forbidden, makes the permissible forbidden – as long as it is soundly based – see discussion on melacha on Chanukah, gebrokts etc. – which cholov yisrael according to all is soundly based as many Rishonim/Achronim hold that it applies in all circumstances)

As for eruvin, the Brooklyn Eruv is major hock. But l’maaseh when one is machmir to not use an eruv, one CAN ask someone to carry something for them. If one holds there is no eruv/eruv is totally not reliable, then one cannot ask someone to carry – just like one can’t ask someone to do any other melacha on Shabbos. There are many opinions out there that are makel on Eruvin, and though one can’t rely on any and all makelim, I don’t think there is any eruv (unless poorly constructed) that is pasul to all opinions. If so, then fine. But I wonder if practically there is a problem of indirectly telling someone where a parsha sheet is in a place that has an eruv that is kosher to some valid shitta (even though for example l’halacha and to one’s own rav it is not reliable and a potential melacha d’oraissa.)

I would like to see if anyone has sources from contemporary poskim on these issues.

Can I make a coffee for my frum boss who is not machmir on CY? Good q.