Hakatan and SAM2- your essentially fighting a never ending battle.
Sometimes I nod my head when I read these threads. It really is a terrible Sinah and drift that has occured between two Jewish groups who both consider themselves relgious while they emphasize certain things.
Hakatan- I hate to say it, but your not being fair. Forget about this convo with Sam, because I came from an MO background. I know EXACTLY what you mean when you say it over emphasizes zionism. Sometimes I felt zionism was more important to them than teaching halacha. No one every taught tznious to us, we just knew we had to wear skirts and shirts that came semi close to the elbow- but the ramifications were not important. I always loved Judaism, I just felt like it was ok, I’m Jeiwsh now let me go on with my life. So in essence your correct, there is a lack of flame there (and I am being general because I know extremly different ends of the “MO spectrum- including very frum people and people who r basically conservative, minus the driving on shabbos).
Now my question for you- how do you take that information?
“And does it really matter what aveiros some people do in the name of MO? Are you asking me to “bash” them?”
Thats what you said. That is a hurtful statement. People who grow up MO don’t know any different. They are connected, they keep Shabbos and they go to schools where tanach is taught. In a world where the Jewish people are diminishing each year, why would you even say such thoughtless statements like that. Why would you even consider bashing them? Why is that a thought that comes to mind?
When a tradgedy happens in the world, everyone rushes to find a finger to point and blame. It must be that people aren’t tznious enough, it must be that people listen to non Jewish music etc. And while I am sure they aren’t wrong, pointing fingers gets us no where. NO WHERE.
You must promote a sense of pointing the finger at yourself. Becuase what if a tradgedy happened because you refused to help that person across the street, or didn’t open up your door to someone who asked for money, or refused to have that family over for Shabbos.I’m not sitting here and saying you are the reason for disasters in the world, I don’t know you. You sound like a pretty level headed person, and you sound open to hearing others, whcih is commendable to you. But your attitude on the MO community is a destrcutive one, not prooductive.
What if it was your bad deeds that you simply cant see? Thats how I look at it. I say it was my bad deeds, how can I be a better person. Hashem didn’t create any person perfectly. There is always room for imporvment.