nishtdayngesheft – If we’re playing psychoanalyst, I think that you’re projecting. Don’t bother trying to argue because you’re just in denial. Trust me, I’m a psychologist (well, a student one anyway)
ihear – Stop moving the goalposts; a specific claim was made – that males have a stronger yetzer horah for females than females do for males – I responded by poitning out that this is untrue logically, biologically and neurologically. You then said that it is true by “a huge margin”:
just take a look at the statistics for “illicit” behavior and men beat women by a huge margin
I, understandably, assumed that “illicit” referred to the matter in hand, i.e. sexual compulsion, thus responding with statistics relating to the proclivity of male and female fidelity.
I had a quick look for your statistics. Well it turns out that it is 57% to 54% which is hardly a “large margin”
(source: statisticsbrain.com from Journal of Marital and Family Therapy)
Now you say that you were, in fact, referring to “various self-control issues”. Do you mean addictions? What kind of addictions specifically? Do you mean that 87% of ALL addicts are male? Well this is clearly untrue. Let’s break down by type: Drugs: Predominance varies by drug type, country and age range. Females between 15 and 18 in Finland are 1.6% more likely to be addicted to amphetamines than males but 1.8% less likely in the UK. (Source: European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, study 2006). However stimulant abuse is fairly even between genders across most countries and ages, and adult women are more likely to be addicted to opiates, but less likely to be addicted to cannabis (Source: Harvard Medical School Study 2010).
Alcohol: Male dominance, 20% to 12-15%, but gap narrowing all the time (Sources: Harvard Medical School study 2010, EMCDDA study 2006).
Nicotine: Males higher, 35% to 23% but females find quitting harder (Source: Harvard Medical School study 2010).
Shopping: Almost even but females ever so slightly higher at 6% to 5.5% (Source: American Journal of Psychiatry, 2013).
Sex (sorry for being blunt mods): Statistics notoriously unreliable as they are based on clinical studies that mostly focus on males (so fewer data available for females) and admittance to treatment centres which is mostly driven by media coverage – more males attend treatment centres but only because the media portrays it as a purely male problem, thus females feel that it is less socially acceptable to admit to having the problem. Twice as many females than males are active on online chat rooms dedicated to sex addiction, suggesting that males are more likely to admit publicly but females more likely to admit privately. (Sources: academia.edu, psychologytoday.com, livescience.com, VaLue, K. “Women and Sexual Addiction: Characteristics, Causes and Cure”, 2010)
Food: Statistics not really available, but generally females outnumber males with most eating disorders by about 10 to 1 in the US (Source: eatingdisorderfoundation.org)
So, tell me, where do you find 87% to 13%?
Secondly, in regards to mir, it was you that brought up the subject by claiming that it could be used as an example showing how all kollel guys are serious, your words:
have you ever even stepped foot into a yeshiva? into the mir? into bmg? into brisk? where are you getting this absolutley wrong information?
(Italics mine)
I responded that I had been in the mir:
Yup. Learned in the mir for 3 years.
You questioned my having witnessed what I did, further casting aspersions on my integrity and seriousness in learning :
i was also in the mir and i cannot imagine which building you were in that MOST people were doing what you described,unless, and i mean this with no bad conotations at all, you were amongst them and it seemed as if “everyone” was like that
I answered that I had learned in most of the batei medrashim, specifying two:
I spent time learning in most batei midrashim in the mir, but most of the time I was in Beis Yeshaya (both downstairs and Wallmark).
You then decided that I had only learned in two:
you mentioned 2 PLACES in the mir that you have learned in
You then went on to suggest that, contrary to your original claim, mir is NOT indicative of the general:
surely even you who knows just so much about the yeshiva and seemingly all other yeshivas wouldn’t dare say that you can attest for most peoples either learning or not learning in that specific institution
So which is it? Can you say that most people in the mir are learning seriously or can you not?
Finally, your point about monetary incentives is moot. If you can’t motivate yourself to learn without a cash bonus, well you aren’t suited to full-time learning. Kardom lachpor boh, anybody? And, I hate to break it to you, but most working guys don’t have luxury “housing, cars and other assorted items”. Really, we don’t.
(sorry for the long post mods…)