@NP
“Which Gedolim (past or present) are on record endorsing that a Rebbe is mahuto v atzmuto mamish areingishtelt b’guf ? Can you cite a credible example of even one?”
Honestly, I never heard of that sicha being viewed as controversial before this thread. I happened to have learned that year of the Rebbe’s sichos many many times so I knew where to find it. On this thread, one person was mentioned as having called that the opposite of avodas Hashem cvs, so thats where I picked that up from. So being honest, as I do try to be, I’m going to make a distinction here between me and you so you know exactly where I stand.
For me: I know, as all Chabad Chassidim know, that the Rebbe lived his entire life as a Tzaddik Gamur of Tanya, and accomplished incredible things. Every time we learn a sicha of the Rebbe, Kal Vchomer a Maamar, it lights up our neshama and gives us renewed energy to serve Hashem. It sets our sights and goals higher.
It’s true that an individual can go off, no matter how great they are, but no one goes from being a Tzaddik gomur to an oved…. in a snap, and then back again, unless they are mentally unstable.
For example, Shabsai Tzvi started off as a bright student and looked like a promising Torah leader. If yoshke lhavdil was the student of R Yehoshua ben Prachia, he did too. (Both of them though were not at the level of a tzaddik gamur as when it came down to it, they showed ego/ crassness. The first by refusing to listen to his teacher, and the second by his crass comment which showed his world view.)
However, he went on to think he knew better than his teacher. He continued down a spiritually destructive path until it ended very sadly.
However, The Rebbe lived his entire life desiring nothing but what Hashem wanted. Before he went to cheder he was already picturing how the Geula would look. He never took one action, word and we can assume thought against Hashem. So since he is known to us as such, this controversial statement will remain that, controversial to others, but we accept it as the truth.
Now it could be for other communities, to say such a thing would lead to the opposite of avodas hashem for them because they don’t understand/ learn achdus Hashem in the light of Tanya. So for them, it can be a statement their Rebbeim feel is assur.
For example, Satmar is known for their anti Zionist protests as part of their avodas Hashem. For one of their bochrim to engage in it is considered a good thing. But if a BMG Bachor would participate, I would think his Rosh Yeshiva would scold him roundly for the bitul Torah because that’s not his path in avodas Hashem and he’s just wasting time.
Similarly the Breslov on their Simcha trucks. I dont see a chareidi wide condemnation against it, because we see where its coming from and they focus on simcha. But we probably would scold one of our own bochrim for spending his afternoon on one.
So what I’m saying is two points:
1)I’m really not interested in how many people were for it not for it etc. because the Rebbe is known as a tzaddik gamur and never did anything against Hashem, so this must also be truth.
I’m glad I know now all this information so I can be respectful in other communities to their views, such as with my BY students.
2) If you want, you can present here a list of Gedolim who said this is explicitly against halacha, and I think you’ll see its the minority. And it’s fine they dont endorse it, you dont find Lakewood gedolim endorsing anti Zionist protests, and we all have a different view with how to approach Zionism, yet we understand that this is a legitimate thing for Satmar to do even if it isn’t for us. Am I making sense?
From your posts it is clear to me that you are a sincere person. You know very well that the objection to this chiddush is not only from one Gadol. I’m very surprised you would claim such a thing.
“Also it seems to me, although I could be wrong, that there is a halachic “due process,” like by the gemara they hashed out their proofs for their opinions, and then voted on the final halacha.”
There are many examples post chazal where there is closure in halacha and dayos. For example:
1) Turning on a incandescent light bulb is chillul Shabbos
2) The Zohar HaKadosh is authentic
Right but that doesn’t address what I wrote.
fixed-79