KY
“in which case does the victim feel worse. im saying that doesn’t equate with the perpetrator having done an objectively worse crime.”
why not?
You say “he was a king. it was for midos” I dont fully understand your response. Are you saying the two thieves are just as bad?
If so why did Dovid call for such a severe punishment?
“its a limud מאי חזית דדמא דידך סומק מדמא דחברך”
Aha! its a sevara. Ie something we (read: chazal) came up with on our own. They didnt say, “well Shabbos is more chamur becasue it has a more serious onesh and we dont give up our life, so for mere murder for sure don’t give up your life.”
As the Rambam says rotzeach 4:9 (referring to locking in kupa,) וְאֵין עוֹשִׂין דָּבָר זֶה לִשְׁאָר מְחֻיְּבֵי מִיתַת בֵּית דִּין אֲבָל אִם נִתְחַיֵּב מִיתָה מְמִיתִין אוֹתוֹ וְאִם אֵינוֹ חַיָּב מִיתָה פּוֹטְרִין אוֹתוֹ. שֶׁאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁיֵּשׁ עֲוֹנוֹת חֲמוּרִין מִשְּׁפִיכוּת דָּמִים אֵין בָּהֶן הַשְׁחָתַת יִשּׁוּבוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם כִּשְׁפִיכוּת דָּמִים. אֲפִלּוּ עֲבוֹדָה זָרָה וְאֵין צָרִיךְ לוֹמַר עֲרָיוֹת אוֹ חִלּוּל שַׁבָּת אֵינָן כִּשְׁפִיכוּת דָּמִים. שֶׁאֵלּוּ עֲוֹנוֹת הֵן מֵעֲבֵרוֹת שֶׁבֵּין אָדָם לַמָּקוֹם אֲבָל שְׁפִיכוּת דָּמִים מֵעֲבֵרוֹת שֶׁבֵּינוֹ לְבֵין חֲבֵרוֹ.
Sure in some (many/most ?) regards some aveiros are worse than murder. however this does not change that In another regard murder is far worse. I dont pretend to understand how Hashem judges various crimes. But clearly in some aspect murder is worse than Shabbos it has “הַשְׁחָתַת יִשּׁוּבוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם” It isnt a stretch at all to say rape too has “הַשְׁחָתַת יִשּׁוּבוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם” (As the Torah says “כִּי כַּאֲשֶׁר יָקוּם אִישׁ עַל-רֵעֵהוּ, וּרְצָחוֹ נֶפֶשׁ–כֵּן, הַדָּבָר הַזֶּה.” (devarim 22:26) ) granted the punishment isnt as severe, for whatever reason.
But punishment in of itself is not the sole factor determining severity of an act.
there are different aspects to any aveira. When Sedom set up a bed in which they lengthened and cut legs. They didnt violate any “techincal” sehva mitzvos. It is still abhorent, woprthy of destruction. When dovid heard about the thief, he didnt say “who cares about the details he pays mamon” He was outraged and condemend him to death. now, we dont have din meelch, but I dont understand how you fit the idea that theft is theft
” its bad from a midos perspective (nogea at least for a yid )”
I was asking for a goy.
“killing a father must be a worse מיתה because it’s a worse חטא
Not a difference of לחבירו-למקום”
I dont follow. Could you please elaborate .
“the third is no different then calling a molester a rodef so im not sure why even you would consider that an exception”
because we all know it isnt strictly speaking a case of a rodef. We expand the din rodef for the betterment of society, much as you expanded the din meisis to include zionism. Similarly you seem to be coming around to “and its a violation of personal property rights” (regarding rape). Interesting take, I hear it