Reply To: Sharing the burden – Why Israel needs Chareidim to survive.

AAQ said: “So, you are now abandoning attempts to defend your position and return to proclaiming your inalienable right to be free from Zionist yetzer harah. Let me try to accept your position for a minute. Then, the erliche way would be to either leave the country or to seek mechilah from those who risk their life to defend yours, while you do not want to/not able to (there is a chabad story about chasidim telling a balgula that they “cannot” help him push the horse out of the mud, and he replying – “you can, you just dont want to”). Try to compensate with some other activities, while admitting that it is never a full compensation – organize volunteer help with army supplies; work in place of soldiers (this might require getting a college degree); babysit their children; visit soldiers in hospitals – do this en masse, and maybe you’ll get some acceptance.”

YYA: You keep insisting on turning every thread into a debate on Chareidim and the army. Please stay on topic or start yet another new thread to review the same arguments over and over again. You may want to read this, unless you already read it and ignored it:

Dati Leumi Rabbanim: “IDF Is Violating Orders; Bnei Yeshivos Will Boycott Armored Corps”

AAQ said: “your inalienable right to be free from Zionist yetzer harah.”

YYA: I already explained that this has nothing to do with rights. Hashem gave us a Torah and commanded us to not do certain things or put 18 year old boys in a position where they will be at risk of doing those things. We will do whatever we have to do, legal or otherwise, to keep the Torah that Hashem gave us. If you think you understand the Torah differently, then no one is telling you or your children what to do.

AAQ said: “Then, the erliche way would be to either leave the country or to seek mechilah from those who risk their life to defend yours, while you do not want to/not able to”

YYA: “Ehrlich” is defined by Hashem and His Torah. Not by your personal sensibilities. 18 year old boys and girls serving together is not ehrlich. Every single attempt to create some sort of ‘kosher’ army unit failed, due to the IDF brass gradually reneging on their promises, or being ‘forced’ to do so by the Supreme Court. Every. Single. Attempt. Ever. Comprende? That isn’t ehrlich. Telling 15% of the population to leave the country or violate their faith isn’t ehrlich. It also would be suicidal for Israel, which is the actual subject of this thread. If you think that what you are saying is something normal to say, then tell whoever has problems with the Chareidim to leave the country. They or their children probably eventually will leave anyway.

AAQ said: “Try to compensate with some other activities, while admitting that it is never a full compensation… yada yada… do this en masse, and maybe you’ll get some acceptance.”

YYA: No one is looking to “get some acceptance” from the poritz. As if this is the reason (some of) the Chilonim hate us. Because before there was a medinah and an IDF the Maskilim, Zionists and Secularists just loved us. Only afterwards they suddenly started to hate us… The chicken and the egg.

AAQ said: “There are reports that the new army regulations for charedim was done with approval of Beltzer and Karlin. So, if at least their followers will join this, we will see in a year or two, whether this approach works for both sides. Some progress,”

YYA: You again fail to understand the foileh shtick of Israeli politics, although the game has been explained here before. Don’t hold your breath waiting to see Belzer soldiers…

But the real bottom line is the line this thread started with. The future belongs to the children, and the children belong to the Chareidim. The tipping point has already been passed on both sides in their respective directions. Which is why all other Chareidi/Chiloni issues are ultimately moot.