That a boy would refuse a date with a girl just because her parents aren’t wealthy or because her height or dress size is unacceptable — no matter how good are her brains or midot — is something that is contrary to everything we are supposed to value. It is PRECISELY the very objectification of women that we claim to decry. We talk the talk but we don’t walk the walk and we adopt the worst of the non-Jewish culture, not the best.”
“Unacceptable” – why? Where on earth did that come from? Can a marriage run on ‘middot & brains’ – without attraction? Sorry, it’d be nice to condemn orthodoxy for that, but it silly. It’s called being human. These factors are part of attraction; you could argue the young man shouldn’t rely on these objective factors and see for himself – fine. But attraction is important, and does not make us hypocritical.
Find something else to condemn the religious world for.
Yes, our boys want to be attracted to their wives whom they will be faithful to till death. No, merely brains & middos alone won’t cut it.
That makes up hypocritical? Silly silly.
Of course, there is the real danger of marrying someone for their looks alone – which promises hell in marriage and ultimately repulsion. But brains & middos ain’t do it either if he (or she!) isn’t attracted to him or her.
If you marry someone you find ugly, later you & them will suffer. Tis a fact. It’s not objectification. Objectification would be – say – well, a 24/7 media selling everything with ____. Not a culture that is only interested in attraction for marriage. I consider that to be a light unto the nations.
(And money has been discussed elsewhere , so I’m going to leave it alone.)
Sacri-
“Marriage Material. Nowadays many guys ask for a picture before going on a date, honestly I have no problem with that (besides I get to see before we meet how vain you are) but then I get back that its not what they are looking for… Right, because 5’2 with blonde hair makes a better wife than 5’9 with brown hair… Seriously.”
Again, you don’t understand the male brain. If that’s his hangup, it’s his hangup. And you won’t understand. But it’s real for him. He wants a petite girl. Shoen, it’s his meshugas. But it’s real meshugas. He watched on TV, saw it in the street & at chasunas and we’ve programmed him. Seriously.
I think asking for a picture is usually in the girl’s favor (gives her a chance to attract him w/o all the objective factors) – but I didn’t know it became common in frum circles – has it?
SJS is right though, not that insisting on attraction is silly – indeed all have our ‘items’ (points for the euphemism), but having an exact image of what you will be attracted to is.
Now, certain factors I could understand, but some indeed go into the realm of stupid. But usually I think that’s not the case. I guys have a basic image of who they can be seriously attracted to, which is accurate. One could argue that it’s still worth a date, but a boy would reply that he has a list three miles long anyway (so why not have some filtering questions, because anyways they are all the same on paper).
And once they are at that point, they need to look for that. People are different, and shouldn’t deny that. Shidduchim is not time for spiritual growth; it’s time for realism.