popa-
If you’re ????? in that Gemara it actually seems clear that it is not truly ???? ??? ????. Sounds more like some kind of ???? ???? ????? or something.
And stam azoi I had a kashya on those who say ???????? ?????? is ???? ??? ????; if the whole din of ???? ??? ???? by arayos is learned from retzicha and by retzicha ???????? is b’pashtus not ???? ??? ???? (I know there might be a Rabbeinu Yonah who argues but I’m almost sure it’s not niskabel) then how in turn can one say that ???????? ?????? is?! If you have an answer I’d love to hear.