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#815455
yitayningwut
Participant

quark2-

About ksivah, there are many issues.

I have seen people use the svaros you are mentioning, but frankly, from a straightforward-learning-through-the-sugya-and-trying-to-keep-an-open-mind perspective I don’t see how any of those arguments really hold ground. Specifically speaking:

1) Of course there is a ma’aseh kesivah. A stamp is a ma’aseh kesiva too. The poskim say as a davar pashut that a printing press is kesivah mid’oraisa. Why should typing be different?

2) The writing may not last but it is still assur mid’rabbanan. Even where the writing and what is being written on is not permanent it is assur mid’rabbanan, and this is accepted to be the shitah of the mechaber and the Rema.*

3) I really don’t understand this ‘electronic bits’ argument. I hear it a lot but it sounds like people just saying stuff. I would appreciate if you could demonstrate, in a clear halachic manner, why this is not as bad as kesiva she’aino miskayem. Remember, being that it is accepted that ksav she’aino miskayem on top of something which doesn’t last is assur mid’rabbanan, and this looks like that, the burden of proof is on you to clearly demonstrate why this is better.

4) I don’t believe any honest person learning the sugya will be willing to say that one is not chayav for writing in English, even as a tziruf.

5) Many steps do not make something a grama. This is mefurash in the gemara in a few places – I don’t have seforim in front of me at the moment but one place is toward the end of (I think) BK where a peson is chayav for killing someone by throwing something which ricochets of something else which in turn kills the person; similarly in Chullin a shechita is kosher in such a fashion. It is very clear all over that when one is a direct cause even if several steps away he is not a grama, and if I am mistaken please show me otherwise. Moreover, grama is often considered just as good as your own action when the effect takes place mammash immediately. This is true with regard to murder and shechita as well. Therefore even if typing could be called a grama I am doubtful that it would be muttar.

One final note: I don’t think the intention of this forum was to debate how the halachic process works, but personally, I don’t believe you can ever make a “tziruf” if you don’t at least have one svara that stands alone. Only when you have that, yet it’s not enough because it isn’t a generally accepted thing or whatever, then you are metzaref other tzedadim to be meikil. But here all of the tzedadim seem wishy-washy to me.

*Here is the background for this halacha (written by myself a little while back, no plagiarism here).

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