Reply To: Would you choose army or kollel?

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rabbiofberlin
Participant

daasyochid and hello99- from our discussions in recent days, we are actually much closer in thought that you think.

I said, in an earlier posting, that few people argue that NO ONE should be paid for learning, nothwithstanding the Rambam. The Poskim after him (and you are quoting many of them) agreed that, “bizman hazeh’, in our days, Rabbonim, melamdim and other klei kodesh can receive money for teaching Torah (schar batoloh or any other explanation).Actually -to hello99- what the Ridvaz is doing is a very simple thing- how do you reconcile the rambam in hilchos talmud torah and hilchos shemitta ? (it is an axiom of halacha that we try to minimize the machlokes, if possible, and certainly to harmonize some inner contradiction).So, the Ridvaz explains that the Rambam clearly approves of people dedicating themselves to Torah, BUT- says the Ridvaz, this only is allowed if he does NOT receive money from zedakah- and so ,there is no contradiction in the Rambam.This is the only way that you can reconcile the Rambam in both his piskei halocho. (I am not sure what your mention of terumos umaaasros is. Surely, the Yisraelim cannot eat terumo?)

Now, we come to the Remo and the Shach- both quoting extensively from the Kessef Mishne. IF you learn the whole Remo and the Shach, it is clear that they are talking about Rabbonim, Poskim and melamdim. As a matter of fact, if you learn the whole Kessef Mishne, it is crystal clear this is what they are talking about. The kessef Mishne goes to extreme lengths to describe the kind of talmidei chachomim that CAN take money from the tsibbur- and he mentions Poskim, Melamdim and Rabbonim.

Nowhere does it say that any person can take money from the tsibbur indiscriminately. And this is the crux of the difference between those (like me) who are critical of the kollel system today and those (maybe like you) who assume that everyone can do this.

Throughout our history, there were always a number of people who received their expenses from someone else while learning ,either from family or father-in-law- or the “kuppah’ of the town. However, these people were selected carefully and it was always for a certain period of time until they assumed rabbinical positions.Today- especially in Israel- this system has broken down because a large part of those who are in kollel should not be there. The financial situation makes this a precarious position. This is essentially the position I espouse.

As far as the army is concerned, it is actually a separate discussion. However, my point was in some of my postings that if you would stop all stipends to the mass of the kollels, the vast majority would leave the kollel to earn a living and I would even go so far as to give all the kollel jungeleit a blanket exemption, so that we can start with a clean slate.

and-hello99- I do not believe that all of the people who oppose the blanket exemption from the army are all intent on eradicating Torah.Many are well meaning, both for the country AND for the jungeleit, many of whom would fare much better outside of kollel. We haven’t even touched upon the issue of women working , of girsl unable to get a shidduch, of the loss of capable people in other spheres…..etc…