Reply To: The Dov Lipman Response�Controversial?

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#955361
yytz
Participant

HaKatan: I disagree with everything you’re saying, but I’ll limit my response to your claim that all those Jews who died in Israeli wars/terrorism would have lived in the US (“every one of those Jews would still be alive”). First of all, many of those who died wouldn’t have existed in the US because of undeniably higher assimilation rates (whether or not their ancestors were frum) in the US and other countries they could have moved to.

Second, if all Jews had moved to the US instead of Israel, then many of them would have died early anyway. There were 80,000 U.S. casualties (combat deaths) in Korea and Vietnam. About 180,000 Jewish soldiers fought in those wars, so at least a few hundred, probably a thousand or more Jews died in those wars. There have been another 5,000 combat deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan (about 1% of whom were Jewish) and of course many Jews died on 9/11.

More importantly, the traffic fatality rate, murder rate and suicide rate are all more than twice as high in the US than in Israel. This would have killed several thousand more Jews, if Israeli Jews had all been living in the US instead.

Let’s take traffic accidents. From WWII to the present there have been about 25k to 55k traffic fatalities in the US each year. Assuming about 1% of those is Jewish (which is conservative, since Jews are 2% of the population), that’s 250-550 Jewish deaths per year, half of which would not have happened if they’d been in Israel. If that’s about 400 excess Jewish deaths per year, then about 26,000 Jews (400*65) have died in car accidents in the US who would have survived if they’d lived in Israel. That alone is more than all the war/terror fatalities in Israel.

So if we’re talking about early deaths, whether by war or other means, I don’t think you can say Israelis are worse off. They may even be better off.