December 23, 2012 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #1009259Git MeshigeParticipant
Walfishmusings, you are 100% wrong. If you ever opened up a Mussar Sefer in your life you will discover that our sages were vehemently against ostentatios way of life. Chazal warned us to live a simple life and not be oisek in Taanugei Oilam Hazeh.December 23, 2012 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #1009260WolfishMusingsParticipant
Again, once someone is meeting their tzedaka obligations (and certainly once they hit the 20% mark), they are free to spend the rest of their money as they see fit, without any guilt trips.
If a guy gives $200,000 of his million dollar salary to tzedaka, I certainly don’t begrudge him a $40,000 watch, an expensive car, or anything else he can afford.
The WolfDecember 23, 2012 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1009261
“Once one fulfills his requirement of tzedakah he can spend his money however he likes”
What planet do you come from? Don’t you know about all the suffering yidden out there? How can you spend so much on garbage when there are people going through yissurim every day? Besides the fact that one of the fundamentals of judaism is that we are only put in this world to prepare ourselves for the next world. How can you look at giving a tenth to tzeddakah as an obligation that needs to be discharged?December 23, 2012 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1009262
If anyone claims that there is a purpose to overenjoyment in Olam Hazeh, I can bring proofs from any source you want that such a belief is pure garbage.December 23, 2012 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #1009263Git MeshigeParticipant
Wolfishmusings , of coarse Chazal did not think the way you think. Again, if you ever follow our sages and see what THEY have to say about living an ostentatious life, then you would agree. But obviously you fail to adhere to what they have to say and rather listen to your yetzer hora, then of coarse you find nothing wrong with it. So very sadDecember 23, 2012 7:21 pm at 7:21 pm #1009264TheBearIsBackMember
That’s the halacha. Aser te’aser, and nothing over chomesh.
Showing off is not the Jewish way either, but when I see administrators of tzedoko funds driving cars I’d never waste money on and yes, they and their wives wearing watches I’d never waste money to wear, I’d rather reinvest every cent I don’t need after maaser into my business than into the organized tzedoko business. You don’t get back what you give to these crooks, because there is no brocho in keeping their shtick going from father to son to grandson. Far too many schnorrerlach (now called Directors of Development) keep 50%, and there are other expenses down the line before a moisad or a legitimate oni or choileh sees a penny.
I would much rather buy myself a 40,000$ watch, especially if it is an investment (which I doubt) than contribute one penny to buy a fundraiser a 60,000$ Lexus.
When I see third-generation welfare families in klal Yisroel, I don’t want to support them anymore than I want to support their non-Jewish counterparts (well, that’s why I am not in the US anymore, but that’s beside the point). When people think collecting from honest working people and businessmen to pay for defending convicted felons is tzedoko, I fully understand where, chalila, reform and their misinterpretations of the neviim came from. I also think of phrases like “parois Bashan” when I see how the wives and daughters of those who live on donated funds dress and conduct themselves.
When I have money to spare over maaser that I don’t need to expand my business, put away for retirement, or yes, enjoy an occasional bottle of $200 whisky or wine and a nice yearly vacation, it will go to support medical research and not professional schnorrers. I have seen too much, and I don’t even know sometimes why I bother staying frum with all the corruption I’ve seen. I know of only one tzedoko in all of EY – Ezra laMarpeh – that is 100% trustworthy, not paying administrators for nonsense, and leshem Shamayim. (A few others do a good job, but they have too many salaries to pay and/or are known to not be above laundering money.)
I have a feeling that some posters here don’t know what it is to start and run a business from scratch, and they, like many tzedoko administrators, have no problem demanding that those who do succeed share the wealth at disproportionate rates. I have always had problems with well-meaning bochurim who volunteer for tzedokos, but do not understand that I can’t give them $2 for every $1 I earn. I once volunteered alongside a group like this, and I quickly found out some of the problem was that they were falling for ludicrous and untrue sob stories from professional abusers and not checking with legitimate recipients to see what they really needed, so of course they ran out of funds fast.
Those who really succeed honestly tend to be the ones who are careful in giving as well as not showy. Those who are jealous of them call them kamtzanim and all kinds of other names. I will be proud when someone refers to me as a kamtzan and tells his fellow schnorrerlach not to waste their time with me.December 23, 2012 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #1009265☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
I think it’s a lack of extreme sensitivity to wear a $40.000 watch. It’s downright assur, though, to berate someone simply for disagreeing with that idea.
Wolf, I don’t know how the moderators let these nasty, undeserved attacks against you through.December 23, 2012 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1009266GeshmakManParticipant
If “frum” websites allows non-stop bashing and Loshon Hora on their websites, why shouldn’t a “frum” magazine be allowed to advertise a $40,000 watch???December 23, 2012 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #1009267TheBearIsBackMember
By the way, few owners of 40,000 dollar watches, other than gangsters for whom every day they put on their watch can be their last with an arm to wear it on and eyes to see the dial, wear them every day to show them off.
Some collect watches, and only take that watch out for a very special occasion. Some of those watches appreciate in value years down the road, so they make a nice yerusha and yes, even can be sold or donated for resale for tzedoko or borrowed against to support a learning child. (I don’t think they’re worth it as a plain investment unless someone truly enjoys having such a watch.)December 23, 2012 9:28 pm at 9:28 pm #1009268WolfishMusingsParticipant
Wolf, I don’t know how the moderators let these nasty, undeserved attacks against you through.
I don’t know about the moderators, but I can say this about the posters: there is a general atmosphere here that if you’re perceived as “less frum” than your disputant, you are free to say whatever you want, attribute whatever motives to him/her that you want and either imply or outright insult your disputant.
That is what is truly sad here.
The WolfDecember 23, 2012 11:55 pm at 11:55 pm #1009269☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
That’s true (although it might very well be that this “general atmosphere”atmosphere is in large part generated by one person posting under many sn).
It’s unfortunately true on occasion, that someone perceived as “more frum” is treated the same way (not by you).
BTW, did you get a chance to look up the sources I quoted on Hilchos LH?December 28, 2012 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1009270
See the thread called
“Some notes about what it means to be truly poor… (62 posts)”March 26, 2014 2:01 am at 2:01 am #1009271👑RebYidd23Participant
Here’s what’s sick: An ad used a picture of two swans to symbolize marriage but they were the same swan!
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